Cavalier Turbo-prop Mustang pics

[famvburg]

I just thought. Didn't the Lycoming on the Enforcer come off of the ill-fated YAT-28E?

[Randy Haskin]

I think it has as little in common with a P-51 as does an F-82, maybe only 10% - 15% commonality, if that.

With the exception of the bottom canopy rail (which was an original Mustang part grafted on to the top of the new-build PA-48 fuselage), the only P-51 pieces were "bolt-ons" like the flaps, rudder, canopy frame, etc.

Everything else was new construction.

The original Piper Enforcer was the Turbo Mustang III with the Lycoming used on the PA-48 in place of the Dart.

The PE-1 was, yes (remember that there were two Enforcers built in 1971, the PE-2 [N202PE] first and then the PE-1 [N201PE]). There were some other significant airframe changes PE-1 in the modification process - it wasn't just as simple as an engine swap.

Note that the PE-2 (N202PE, the 2-seat, dual control airframe) was built up directly from a P-51 airframe, and never had the 'intermediate' step of having been a Turbo Mustang III.

I just thought. Didn't the Lycoming on the Enforcer come off of the ill-fated YAT-28E?

Yes. As did the gearboxes.

[Tim Adams]

I did not think you could make a Mustang look bad, but OMG that thing is hideous.

[Shay]

With the exception of the bottom canopy rail (which was an original Mustang part grafted on to the top of the new-build PA-48 fuselage), the only P-51 pieces were "bolt-ons" like the flaps, rudder, canopy frame, etc.

Everything else was new construction.

The PE-1 was, yes (remember that there were two Enforcers built in 1971, the PE-2 [N202PE] first and then the PE-1 [N201PE]). There were some other significant airframe changes PE-1 in the modification process - it wasn't just as simple as an engine swap.

Note that the PE-2 (N202PE, the 2-seat, dual control airframe) was built up directly from a P-51 airframe, and never had the 'intermediate' step of having been a Turbo Mustang III.

Those are neat pictures Randy. This is the 1st time I recall seeing the 1971 'modified' airframes. It's interesting how close the later "New builds" appear to resemble them. With the obvious modifications excused, how much did the remaining fuselage and wing structures on the "New Builds" match North American Aviation drawings(i.e. ribs, stringers, longerons, etc etc.)?

Also the original premise in the project was to use up the large post-war stores of spare Mustang parts. Weren't the landing gear on the New Builds refurbished OEM units?

My dad works with a guy who worked on atleast the 'New Build' portion of the Enforcer initiative. I'll have to see if he has any pics to share.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[Randy Haskin]

how much did the remaining fuselage and wing structures on the "New Builds" match North American Aviation drawings(i.e. ribs, stringers, longerons, etc etc.)?

Very little. The PA-48s were essentially completely re-engineered by Piper's team. In fact, when they started the PA-48 project, they didn't have any specific engineering data from the 1971 aircraft.

Also the original premise in the project was to use up the large post-war stores of spare Mustang parts. Weren't the landing gear on the New Builds refurbished OEM units?

Actually, that wasn't the premise. Various articles on the Enforcer(s) have talked about that idea, but Dave Lindsay (the designer/builder) never stated that as a benefit. In fact, Lindsay said quite the opposite when trying to sell the aircraft -- that so much had been redesigned and rebuilt in the airframe that it was no longer a 'Mustang' at all.

Remember, by the time the Enforcer was built in the 1970s, Mustang spares were long, long since deleted from DoD inventory. Cost savings for the DoD and access to spare parts was never a consideration.

The PA-48s used original North American forgings for the main gear mounts/pivot points (the actual nomenclature is escaping me right now, but where the gear trunnion actually mounts up inside the wheel well. Without looking at my notes, I may be incorrect, but I believe the top half of the gear (above the oleo) may have been original too.

My dad works with a guy who worked on atleast the 'New Build' portion of the Enforcer initiative. I'll have to see if he has any pics to share.

I'd love to see whatever you come up with!

[Hal B]

So Randy; how's the book coming? Enquiring minds want to know

[Randy Haskin]

So Randy; how's the book coming? Enquiring minds want to know

I describe it the same way many restorers and homebuilders describe their projects; "80% complete with 80% still to go." The research is largely done, as is the writing of the first draft.

The big work to do is to edit it down into something that makes sense. Since I'm not a professional writer, and the manuscript has been written in several different phases, it desperately needs the touch of a skilled editor to take it to the next level.

I'm also still collecting photos -- I have a fantastic collection of unpublished photos that came from the Lindsay family (thanks, Ed!!), and there are still many more that I haven't been able to scan yet.

I'm hoping to get it off to an editor/publisher by the end of 2010.

[famvburg]

Not sure which of the 'things' you're referring to, but to me, the PA-48 still has the look of a Mustang, minus the scoop of course, but on steroids. Even the cowl is similarly shaped. But the Turbo Mustang III, that's gotta be the sexiest of Mustangs. It's still a Mustang to boot & even still has a R/R strapped on front. Runner up to the III has to be the late, great RB-51 Red Baron!

I did not think you could make a Mustang look bad, but OMG that thing is hideous.

[Randy Haskin]

Here's a shot of the P-51 canopy rail fixture that was used in the construction of the PA-48 in the 1980s. The new-build fuselage that is was grafted on to is behind it.

The windscreen, obviously, is not original -- it is taller and at a more upright angle than the standard Mustang windscreen.

[Shay]

Thanks Randy for setting me straight. I'll let you know if i hear back from the guy about the pics.

A couple questions: Was the Enforcer ever marketed to other nations after USAF declined? Also any educated guesses as to what the USAF designation would have been, had the USAF accepted it? Also is there still any life left in the project?

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

[Randy Haskin]

Was the Enforcer ever marketed to other nations after USAF declined?

Yes and no. Sometimes Piper did (to limited success), and other times they avoided it. It depended on a lot of factors that changed 3 or 4 times during the 15 years Lindsay and Piper tried to market and sell it.

Ultimately the reason the airplane never sold was that the foreign countries didn't want a product that wasn't also operated by the US. At various times through the 1970s and 1980s, there were 4 or 5 serious customers for the airplane, but only if the US also was going to purchase it.

Also any educated guesses as to what the USAF designation would have been, had the USAF accepted it?

So far as I know, that was never officially discussed. Depending on when it would have been purchased, it might have been A-11 or A-12.

Also is there still any life left in the project?

Not the Enforcer in particular. Ironically the USAF and USN are currently in the process of buying a single-engine turboprop for COIN operations!

[oz rb fan]

funnily enough there's another north American(now Boeing) plane up for that and it's not a single
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... -ov-10x-br.

[famvburg]

IIRC, back around a similar timeframe as the Trubo III, there was a Mustang converted to a Dart in Australia. I don't think it was intended for a military application, it was done 'cause it could be done. It was a P-51D with a Dart & was similar in appearance to the Turbo III but had F-86, IIRC, drop tanks & no tip tanks. I think it was converted back to a Merlin years later. Not sure of its history otherwise.

[airnutz]

funnily enough there's another north American(now Boeing) plane up for that and it's not a single
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... 0x-br.html

Link should work now...

[oz rb fan]

thanks