The Legend Cub

wacoykc · **Posted:** Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:07 am

Here comes my two cents worth. I believe I have seen a photo of Chris and he is not a little guy. A 65hp Cub, Champ, T-Craft, Luscombe, etc. are gonna be a tight fit and won't be blazing performers. I myself weigh 215 so I know where I am coming from having flown all the above.....with passengers. Say we give up the idea of a Legend Cub simply because of price, nothing else. So now you look for the most pristine original J-3 that you can find. So lets say for sake of argument you find a freshly restored one by the top restorer in the country for $45K.

Now from reading Chris' posts on here he is a warbird fanatic. Why not buy something like a Fairchild PT-19, 23, 26 that has a decent engine horsepower wise, an engine that is pretty reliable and still not tough to get parts for. It is roomier, a little faster and can carry more. And the best thing? The price is right there in that $40-50K range. You would get a true warbird that will allow you to buy your flight suit, helmet and goggles, tech manuals, etc. The Ryan PT-22 is in that range as well but is not as easy to handle plus you deal with a Kinner and is a tighter fit. A Stinson L-5 is also in that range. I would take an L-5 over a Cub any day. A Navion is also right there, alot faster but a little more maintenance. You also have a Fairchild 24 in that range.

I am only assuming this is within your budget because you mentioned a Legend Cub and they are not cheap! You may even find a Stearman or N3N in that $60-75K range. Now if your budget is less than $35K, then the choices get narrowed down as stated in previous posts. This is my opinion and its worth what you paid for it.

N3Njeff · **Posted:** Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:43 am

Well I am going to stand up on the soapbox a bit more since I am in the hospital and I got nothin better to do.

Yea chris is a big guy and that CAN be fixed................I know as I used to weigh 297.

If he indeed wants a warbird. The PT is certinly a way to go!!! I am now a big fan of the PT-23 due to the fact of its construction (now that I have seen it up close). I also know that in the future, there will be more of these flying and able to due to some very dedicated people.

That being said, I would not have put the L-5 as a good canidate. I had done some digging and almost bought a L-5 project. I am sure that taylor will chime in on this and correct me if I am wrong. But at one time, there were concerns about existing airplanes with older wings that had glue joints that were failing. Now I am sure that the PT series can also have this but in the future, there will be a opportunity to order new wings, much like for the stearman today.
The other minus to the L-5 is that I was told there are only a handful of people that will OVH the engine and parts are getting scarce. Our beloved N3N is under the same situation with the Wright engine but yet we have a option of other approved engine installations to where the L-5 does not.

If chris wants to own a L-5 for a long time, these will be things that will need to be considered for the future. Lord knows I would love to have a spare Wright since we are NOW using our spare after 30+ years of flying.

Chris, cant wait to see what you put in the hangar.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:42 am

N3Njeff wrote:

That being said, I would not have put the L-5 as a good canidate. I had done some digging and almost bought a L-5 project. I am sure that taylor will chime in on this and correct me if I am wrong. But at one time, there were concerns about existing airplanes with older wings that had glue joints that were failing. Now I am sure that the PT series can also have this but in the future, there will be a opportunity to order new wings, much like for the stearman today.
The other minus to the L-5 is that I was told there are only a handful of people that will OVH the engine and parts are getting scarce. Our beloved N3N is under the same situation with the Wright engine but yet we have a option of other approved engine installations to where the L-5 does not.

If chris wants to own a L-5 for a long time, these will be things that will need to be considered for the future. Lord knows I would love to have a spare Wright since we are NOW using our spare after 30+ years of flying.

I'd like to know more about the glue joint concerns. Especially since I'm giving some serious thought to an L-5.

Ryan

Cvairwerks · **Posted:** Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:29 am

Ryan: The problem is the casien glue itself. It's a decent short term use glue...ie a planned life of a couple of years. Unfortunately, time and moisture can have a severe degrading effect on it and it's bond strength. The problem comes where you have joints that have not had the ideal life.....They have bene subjected to lots of hi-lo moisture cycles, lots of the same with temps and have been sujected to lots of trapped moisture. With all of this, the glue can significantly lose it's original bonded strength without having visual degredation.

With that said though, using modern, approved glues, there is the capability to build up new wings, tails, fins ect aithout too much difficulty. I know that Duncan Cameron in the Sentinel Club has been working on converting the microfilm drawings for the L-5 to Cad so that either router tooling can be made or it ported to a CNC router to make the big ribs. Probably the hardest part of building up a set of L-5 wings is the formed plywood sections in the leading and trailing edges and the plywood attach angles within the wing. Every thing else is straight forward standard wood consturction.

I've got one NOS wing for mine that had the cover pulled off when I bought it. It spend almost it's entire life in the top of a hangar, covered with a couple of cotton sheets and it looks like it came out of the wood shop yesterday. Will I install it and fly on it.....I just don't know. Since I have to build up the opposite wing, I'll probably go on and build one for that side too as most parts are mirror images. I need to dig though all my wing hardware and see what I have for compression ribs and tanks straps and from there I will decide which wing version to build up.

BTW... you need to do a long cross country up here and come visit our L-5 playground..hopefully before Taylor moves his to near his school and when Dan Linn is freed to play...

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:38 am

I'm moving my L-5 questions here, so we can keep Chris' thread on topic...
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=34753&start=0

Ryan

airknocker · **Posted:** Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:01 pm

I'll second wacoykc. If you can afford something bigger than the suggested warbugs, the Fairchild PT series is a good choice. One of the first annual inspections I performed too many years ago was a PT-26 in NH. You could consider it a big man a/c and with simple systems to maintain (no retractable gear), parts availability and true warbird status. I only got one flight and did numerous runups, but nothing like 200 hp and a large stick in you hand!
Here is one for sale reasonable:
http://www.vintageaircraftgroup.org/top.htm
http://www.vintageaircraftgroup.org/pro ... 20Sale.htm
http://www.vintageaircraftgroup.org/pro ... jects.html
Also a L-5:
http://www.vintageaircraftgroup.org/pro ... 20Sale.htm

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:02 pm

Thanks guys, this is really a great thread. The size thing can be an issue. I have started the old fashioned plan of eating better and working out. Swimming laps 5 days a week. It is something that I just need to do. I was never a small guy, but I never carried the cargo I am now. A good bit of it is due to a few tough years through a nasty divorce. Girls will kill you faster than planes will. As i am fixing that something else that won't change is the fact that I am 6'1". So I am always going to be a bit of a taller dude. The thought of having a PT-19 is pretty fun too. I do love the cub and the idea of the cub as it was my first plane ride. But that said I love all of the classics like the T-crafts, Aeronca, and more. I need to do more thinking, but you guys really are helping me out here. A Stearman really is one of mydream aircraft to own, but it is a little out of my league right now. The others are right where I was thinking. Funny thing though as I prepare to get my hangar, I am shocked at the prices here over the prices in Pittsburgh and areas. At the Allegheny County Airport, the prices were in the $600 range for a T-hangar. Here in Indiana a bigger hangar with power doors goes for $150 a month!

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:34 pm

mustangdriver wrote:

A Stearman really is one of mydream aircraft to own, but it is a little out of my league right now.

Chris,
How much do you figure to get a Legend Cub for? I actually think a Stearman might be comparable - in the $75-80K range if you do well. Also, you may not be a CFI, but if you were to work with the right person, say as a partner, you might be able to make it help pay for itself.

Ryan

wacoykc · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:54 pm

That is exactly what I was thinking....if you can afford a Legend then you can afford a Stearman!!!!!!

Kyleb · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:56 pm

wacoykc wrote:

That is exactly what I was thinking....if you can afford a Legend then you can afford a Stearman!!!!!!

I'd say that if you can afford to buy a Legend you can afford to buy a Stearman. Care and feeding are another story.

Also, Stearmen tend to be a bit drafty in the Winter.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:40 pm

Wow! You guys have given me a ton to think about.

airknocker · **Posted:** Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:56 pm

Wasn't there a Stearman with a canopy restored and based at KBVI in PA? Excuse me, a winter enclosure!

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:51 am

I have actually flown in that aircraft. It has the cold weather shroud on the front of the engine, and a canopy over both cockpits. it is a canadian airframe based at KBVI.

Airplanejunkie · **Posted:** Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:24 am

Kyleb wrote:

wacoykc wrote:

That is exactly what I was thinking....if you can afford a Legend then you can afford a Stearman!!!!!!

I'd say that if you can afford to buy a Legend you can afford to buy a Stearman. Care and feeding are another story.

That would be my concern. I'd be thinking about things like fuel consumption, engine overhaul and other maintenence costs costs and perhaps insurance.

One of the things that would concern me about the Legend Cub is that you may wind up with significant depreciation, making it, over the long term, a more expensive option.

Have you thought about a Super Cub? In this market you might be able to find a nice one for the price of the Legend. You'd wind up with more payload and speed and still have all the fun of a Cub.

I've owned two airplanes in partnerships and had good experiences. I also know of horror stories, mostly centered on $$. You need to make sure your partner is of a like mind when it comes to how you want to operate and maintain the airplane.

Lastly, this is a great time to buy an airplane. Lots of good deals out there.

FWIW,

Dave Hadfield · **Joined:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:31 pm **Posts:** 1672

You might consider a PA-12. It's a bit broader, and has more useful load than a stock Cub (although I can't quote the Legend or PA-18 numbers).

A good stock one is 40-50K, maybe less.

Dave

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