Lake Michigan F6F recovery and restoration thread

[lmritger]

She really is cleaning up nicely! I have to say that pic of the SBD on it's nose just about made my heart leap into my throat though... I was just scrolling quickly down to the bottom of pg 8 and that flashed by quickly, immediately registering as a current SBD that did a noseover! I don't think I realized the aircraft still had remnants of the red centers in the insignia, that's awfully cool!

Great pics, thanks for the updates!

Lynn

[Holedigger]

Great pics! Thanks for sharing. Can anyone get that close for photography or do you have "special access"? Gotta get back up there again, looks like they have had a GREAT year of recoveries.

[mh53eflyguy]

Hi All,

I had no issues getting out there AT ALL today! I had a great visit to the NMNA today. In fact, Ens. Steven Mirrer, one of the 500+ others that are like myself, awaiting flight training down here, who is helping with the restoration was even filling me in on some of the findings. He was most helpful in facilitating today's shoot. He, and a few others that I spoke to, filled me in on some of the interesting (disgusting) findings including many fish that had not survived the trip down from the Great Lakes, but their "biggest lengths" story was just like any other fish story out there! Three people held up their arms at various lengths to give me an idea of the fish size that they found in the cockpit, and they were all different lengths! (I have a picture of two smaller ones in the empty ammo cans casings in the wings) Others being that this in fact did not have guns on board, they had some sort of blank-off plate in the leading edge of the wings, and the ammo can were empty and painted red and two were yellow (which even in modern times means its' been removed but accounted for. See pictures) They were very accommodating of the pictures today and the enlisted folks were just as eager as I've seen working away on her. The plan is to somewhat duplicate the tail high stance here this week, just like that we saw on the reclamation and restoration of the SBD in the picture I posted. I was able to just about get every angle I could get. They are in the process of pulling off everything FWF to get it on it's nose. The weather was not great (dense fog but that made for some dramatic shots).

It was interesting to see Navy personnel working on a Hellcat again! It was also wonderful that just about all the Navy guys that I saw out there knew the background of this bird, and were very pridefully working on it.

I was able to get up on her and take pictures of the cockpit. While the seat had been removed, everything else still looked like it was in there. While I was up there taking pictures, a few things stood out:

-It really smelled BAD, but with all the marine life dying off, that was to be expected.
-On the Port side, opposite where the "2" was, there is a very faded "J 12". It's hard to see but the "12" is under the DF and 135
-Some of the actuator seals held out very well underwater!!! The actuators that were fully retracted were relieved of the hydraulic pressure and the actuators were as shiny and clean as anything you would find flying today! The Oleos in the shock strut for the landing gear also had beautiful shining metal exposed too!
-This was in really good shape otherwise!
Here are a couple pictures to wet your whistles until I can get them all up. They should be all up in a couple of hours, I'm going to lightly processes them. I'll send the link to the Photobucket and Flickr pages that the rest will be at, I don't want to bog down the server with these big pictures. I took about 150 pictures out there in, on, and around the bird. This bird is getting plenty of TLC by these folks!

Blue Skies! Enjoy the pics!

- Scott



Someone wanted to see where the antenna went to behind the seat. This Tx/Rx was back there, but I'm not sure of what it was for. My guess is its the VHF/UHF radio reciever/transmitter. Can someone else help with the I.D.?










Notice that where the STBD side has a "2", this side has a very faint "J 12". I actually did not see the "12" until I got home and looked at the pictures, but a keen eye will spot it.
DF and 135 as well as the "J" can be seen.

I'll post the rest up, they should be all processed within about 4 hours. There are 150 pictures, so please bear with me. I'll update the link on here with the Photobucket and Flickr links on this post. More to follow!

Last edited by mh53eflyguy on Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:33 pm, edited 8 times in total.

[mh53eflyguy]

Great pics! Thanks for sharing. Can anyone get that close for photography or do you have "special access"? Gotta get back up there again, looks like they have had a GREAT year of recoveries.

Hi Holedigger,

They were very happy to accommodate me. I didn't get an email back from them, but I went out there today. Some 2nd Lt's from the Marines walked me back there, but one of the stashed Ensigns said they get about 5 folks a day that come on back there to get some pictures. If the gate is open, I'd still recommend checking in through the maintenance office (the door by the Sailor) and it's still a non-issue. They were wonderfully accommodating for me today. I somewhat felt like I was slowing their progress so I didn't stick around as long as I would have liked, but if you can swing by, I recommend it. It will likely be on it's nose by Thursday, and I might go out and get more pictures then too.

-Scott

[Django]

EXCELLENT PHOTOS!

What's the thinking of placing it on it's nose?

[RMAllnutt]

Scott

Interesting

Lower engine filler cowl? from Bu.No.04893 which is another F6F-3 - No idea of the history. Nothing on the Bauchers site.

Will have to look that up and see where this Hellcat moved around from. nothing on Google either.

Will be interesting to see if there are any other Bu.No on the removed panels.

The '2' looks less visible today. Still an odd location for a side number.

Looking good now it is getting cleaned.

regards

Mark

Hi Mark,

I don't know if times have changed much, but in my past dealings with pulling aircraft panels while working avionics is a lot of times the panel numbers more less were just for identifying the location of the panel by station lines and water lines. I don't know if things were different back then, but it's common for panel numbers to not correspond with the BUNO number, but that is in regard to modern-day Navy stuff. Of course, I'm comparing a Sikorsky product to a Grumman product too. You might or might not be onto something with that stenciling, I don't know enough about how Grumman did things back then, but I just wanted to contribute my $0.02.

Cheers!

-Scott

Most aircraft from this era and before had their serial number stenciled on removeable panels. You have to remember that these aircraft were hand made in the early days, and the slight differences between production units meant that panels didn't always line up from one aircraft to the next. Production techniques did improve in the 40's though, so that commonality of parts became less of an issue. The practise of putting the aircraft numbers on removable components persisted for some time though.

Great photos by the way... thanks for posting so many... keep 'em coming if you can!

Cheers,
Richard

[airnutz]

EXCELLENT PHOTOS!

What's the thinking of placing it on it's nose?

I'd think it is to reduce the storage "footprint".

Great pics Scott!

[RMAllnutt]

EXCELLENT PHOTOS!

What's the thinking of placing it on it's nose?

I'd think it is to reduce the storage "footprint".

Great pics Scott!

Probably to help get the crap out of the aircraft...

Cheers,
Richard

[K5DH]

Someone wanted to see where the antenna went to behind the seat. This Tx/Rx was back there, but I'm not sure of what it was for. My guess is its the VHF/UHF radio reciever/transmitter. Can someone else help with the I.D.?

Radio guy, at your service!

You are looking at the AN/ARC-5 radio transmitting/receiving equipment. This gear is the Navy equivalent of the Army Air Force's SCR-274-N equipment. These setups are referred to as "command sets". This low-power gear was used for short range communications between the airplane and control tower, and from one airplane to another in flight. Some receivers were also used for beacon reception. The control heads for these units were located in the cockpit. This was HF radio equipment, not VHF or UHF. Various transmitter models covered 2.1 to 3.0 mc, 3.0 to 4.0 mc, 4.0 to 5.3 mc, 5.3 to 7.0 mc, and 7.0 to 9.1 mc. Receivers were available for 190 to 550 kc, 500 kc to 1.5 mc, 1.5 to 3.0 mc, 3.0 to 6.0 mc, and 6.0 to 9.1 mc. In your photo, the two units on the top row are transmitters, and the three units on the bottom row are receivers. At the far left on the bottom row is probably the antenna changeover relay. It is impossible to tell from the photo which units are installed. I own several Army and Navy command transmitters and receivers; they're interesting to tinker with.

I'm not aware of the Navy using VHF comm gear in fighter planes during the war, but the Army Air Force did (that being the SCR-522 VHF comm radio, which was basically borrowed from the British). I encourage more knowledgeable people to correct me on that.

Cheers!

[mh53eflyguy]

I just wanted to follow up again with the "J 12" on the port side, I'm seeing a "12" on the stbd side now! I'm sure the "J" is underneath the other DF and 135.

Here is the two photos

STDB side:


PORT side:


Again, you have to look closely. I just wanted to share this since I didn't see any mention of it otherwise in the thread (except for when Mark pointed it out)

-Scott

Last edited by mh53eflyguy on Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mh53eflyguy]

Radio guy, at your service!

You are looking at the AN/ARC-5 radio transmitting/receiving equipment. This gear is the Navy equivalent of the Army Air Force's SCR-274-N equipment. These setups are referred to as "command sets". This low-power gear was used for short range communications between the airplane and control tower, and from one airplane to another in flight. Some receivers were also used for beacon reception. The control heads for these units were located in the cockpit. This was HF radio equipment, not VHF or UHF. Various transmitter models covered 2.1 to 3.0 mc, 3.0 to 4.0 mc, 4.0 to 5.3 mc, 5.3 to 7.0 mc, and 7.0 to 9.1 mc. Receivers were available for 190 to 550 kc, 500 kc to 1.5 mc, 1.5 to 3.0 mc, 3.0 to 6.0 mc, and 6.0 to 9.1 mc. In your photo, the two units on the top row are transmitters, and the three units on the bottom row are receivers. At the far left on the bottom row is probably the antenna changeover relay. It is impossible to tell from the photo which units are installed. I own several Army and Navy command transmitters and receivers; they're interesting to tinker with.

I'm not aware of the Navy using VHF comm gear in fighter planes during the war, but the Army Air Force did (that being the SCR-522 VHF comm radio, which was basically borrowed from the British). I encourage more knowledgeable people to correct me on that.

Cheers!

Thank you very much for that! I should have known it wasn't VHF, I used to be an Avi in the Navy. I wasn't a good Avionics guy....I've digressed. Great info!

[mh53eflyguy]

Most aircraft from this era and before had their serial number stenciled on removeable panels. You have to remember that these aircraft were hand made in the early days, and the slight differences between production units meant that panels didn't always line up from one aircraft to the next. Production techniques did improve in the 40's though, so that commonality of parts became less of an issue. The practise of putting the aircraft numbers on removable components persisted for some time though.

Great photos by the way... thanks for posting so many... keep 'em coming if you can!

Cheers,
Richard

I learn something new everyday! I wasn't sure about how the panels worked back then which is why I was cautiously stating my experience. That is interesting though, so does this serial number in fact not match this bird?
I used to work/fly/break the "Big Iron", aka the Sikorsky MH-53E Sea Dragon, and I was drawing from that experience, but again, I wasn't sure myself!
Awesome input and thank you for the correction.

Blue Skies

-Scott

[airnutz]

The aircraft will be recovered and will be owned by the NMNA and will be restored for static display, just like most of the Wildcats and all of the SBDs that were recovered previously.

Did Kalamazoo's "lake" SBD fly before the Zoo went static?

I want to see a Navy aircraft recovered by a permitted private party, that's when we'll know that real change has become a reality.

Agreed!

[shepsair]

Scott

As mentioned, the tolerances with WWII aircraft (especially early ones) meant that cowlings especially needed adjustments to fit. They therefore became unique to that aircraft. The lower panel is from another F6F-3 and could well have been fitted at a number of locations though most likely in the Pacific. 25910 was out there for 6 months or so island hopping. It would be interesting to see if 04893 was with VF-38 or even VF-33/VF-40 which operated beside her (for a while at least).

We now have five markings and five assignments. *Markings assumed to belong to the listed units.

2 (on cowling) though need to confirm the cowlings are 25910!!! stenciled on - VF-38

DF* - Assigned to San Diego pool in August 1944. (3 days only - no number assigned).

J12* - Assigned to Jacksonville NAS pool in September/October 1944

135* - Assigned to VF-8 in November 1944

F-28 - Assigned to CGTU at Glenview NAS December 1944 (max 5 week service! before loss).

If you get a chance to see the engine cowlings can you have a look for a number on the inside!!

Same with that side panel to see if it had a name with VF-38. (We know if two VF-38 Hellcats with names 'Ruth-Less' and 'Betsy II'.)

Nice to see her without all of the mussels. The was dozens of mud skippers in the cockpit - no wonder it stank!

regards

Mark

Last edited by shepsair on Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

[kalamazookid]

Did Kalamazoo's "lake" SBD fly before the Zoo went static?

No. AFAIK, none of the work was done to airworthy standards. I was told that if they had wanted to make that SBD airworthy, they would have had to essentially build a new one from scratch.

As it is, the restoration used about 85% of the original material that was at the bottom of the lake. The aircraft carries it's original markings that it wore during Operation Torch. I'm not aware of any other surviving naval aircraft that were used during Torch, although I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. IMO, the fact that most of the original material was used makes the restoration more significant because it truly represents the aircraft as it appeared during Torch. I don't think that level of originality could have been preserved with a flying example.

I'd like to see this Hellcat receive similar treatment. Use as much of the original material as possible, and make sure all the research is correct to restore it to as accurate as of a representation as possible.