Warbird Information Exchange

As I was going to bed I was thinking what day tomorrow was in 1941. And I was thinking of what each of the participants might have been doing. For the average soldier or sailor, probably enjoying a peaceful weekend in a beautiful place, unaware the world was about to change forever. For the strike force, especially the pilots undoubtedly trying nervously to get some last minute sleep. And how about the diplomats, and the top military and government people in Washington? Maybe the world outwardly looked normal to them, and that is the face the had to maintain with family and friends, but inside some of them must have had the weight and secrecy of the world on their shoulders.

Our remembrances to those who gave all there. I have been to the Arizona.

And a final thought, I seem to be very pensive tonight. It was almost 70 years ago, and I wonder if we have learned from it. Of course the Japanese are an ally now, and not a military threat to us, but what if you could somehow suspend time and go back to early Dec. I know that diplomatic negotiations had been going on for some time between the U S and Japan,without success, I think oil was the problem.. What if one had the magical power to gather the parties involved, on Dec. 1 and magically show them the future of the next four years, the suffering on both sides, the Bataan Death March, Tarawa, Okinawa, the Indianapolis sinking, the nuclear destruction of Japan's cities? If they saw history in advance and believed it, could anyone, either side, say hold on, we can alter our position, soften our demands and find a way to peace? Is there a quota of suffering to be met before wisdom comes? And I don't have the answers, just the questions.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

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"I've already got four, and I've got thirty cornered" Lt Paul Pablo VF-14 USS Essex

To all who gave everything on this day Dec. 7th 1941 Thank You.

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*When you meet a Veteran shake his or her hand and thank them. They earned your freedom*

It's morning now and I am still thinking about this.

I wonder if the news will feature this day,or if it is too long ago and is just a footnote.

I was also thinking that I know quite a bit about the attacks and the war, have read the books, seen the movies, met some of those involved, flown in the planes: But I really don't know much about what led up to the war, what started the attack. Despite being a native of the U S, educated here through college, I have only a vague idea that Japan accused the U S of cutting off their access to oil. I don't know much more, don't know if that is true,or to what extent, or if so why we did that,or what the alternatives were? This, that is Pearl Harbor and WW II, including the Atomic Bomb was the major event of the 20 th century and don't really know the background in depth.

Next, I wonder why and how Japan ever decided to attack the U S. Can they have really believed that we were not going to retaliate? And despite their initial military might and successes, could they really have believed that the U S was ever going to settle for some partial peace, or that Japan could conquer a much larger nation, even invade the U S? Admiral Yamamoto had no illusions, he had visited California and was aware of what U S industry could produce. He was opposed to the start of the war and said, " I can run wild for 6 months to a year, after that there is no guarantee." After the attack Dec. 7, when he found out the diplomatic warning had not been given in advance, he said " I fear all we have done is awaken a sleeping giant."

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I made a post too about Pearl Harbor. Remember Pearl Harbor!!!!!

A drink to our Pearl Harbor vets....

Thanks,
Nathan

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Watched a documentary last night and am in the middle of another one now. The events leading up to the tragedy of Pearl Harbor were many and complicated. How much of the blame for it goes to the Military leadership of Japan, who had been at war in China for ten years? How much goes to Roosevelt for his strong-arming and sanctions? How much blame falls on the American Isolationists for insisting on ignoring what other countries were doing to their neighbors. It was complicated, it is STILL complicated. Where do you draw the line in the sand and go to war? War is a terrible thing and should not be entered lightly, but if we had shown more backbone after the USS Paney sinking and the Rape of Nanking.....would Pearl have happened? Roosevelt was at "war" with both Japan and Germany before we were in the war, even though he had run on a platform of staying out of the affairs overseas. He had sided with England in Europe and with China in Asia.

The attack on Pearl was just the flashpoint of a smoldering failure of diplomacy. Hitler took country after country after country, and our Peacehawks insisted that it was THEIR affair. Chamberlain GAVE a nod of complicity to Hitler and negotiated away other's freedoms. It was a complicated time.....but it still is. Just where do we draw the line when countries bully their neighbors. Does Isolationism work? I think history says NO. Is war an evil thing? Yes. Is it a necessary tool of last resort when diplomacy utterly fails? When we talk with our enemies, should we let them see the big club in our hand and let them know it is there? We were attacked in Pearl because they saw us building up to show them the club. They were sure they could break our club before we were ready to use it. It was a close thing. If our carriers had been at Pearl, the outcome would have been a very different thing. The war would have been much longer. Done Rambling, it hurts my brain.

I salute the Vets, they did their jobs in a terrible time in a stand against tyranny.

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well hold onto yer socks, I am watching the HIstory Channel 10:10 a.m. 12-7-2009, and just heard that FDR knew about the attack on Harbor, as both the japanese diplomatic and military codes were broken, intercepted, read and understood as late/early as November 1941. Japanese fleet transmitted a message while enroute to Pearl was intercepted, and the US knew where the fleet was.
10:20 a.m., update...FDR notified Kimmel and told him about the Fleet, and wanted Japan to make the first strike...for Kimmel to sit back and basically let it happen

All of the files are in Washington, and are supposedly are declassified, I imagine that it is up to the individual to read all of the documents that predate 12-7-41 and draw their own conclusion

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Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

this info has been floating around for decades. Not sure about the authenticity.., plausible being that the US did not want to get into Europe, let alone what was happening in the Pacific.

Do not want to believe it.., but if the facts are there..,

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S.

Regardless, service member's lives were lost.....



Shay
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Semper Fortis

Hole digger is right, the reasons for the attack are very complicated. In fact, some of the seeds for the attack can be traced back, in part, to the Russo-Japanese War of 1905 and the policies of Theodore Roosevelt's administration. Some have even blamed Admiral Perry. The Japanese wanted to exploit the natural resources of the countries and islands of the Pacific Rim, just like the British, Dutch and Americans had been doing for many years. We were not going to allow that. The oil embargo of Japan came about because the Japanese took over French Indo China after France fell to the Germans in June 1940.

I have studied the Pearl Habor attack for over 30 years and I have found absolutely no evidence that FDR knew that Pearl Harbor was targeted specifically and that he, Roosevelt, let the attack happen. The truth: the military and the civilian leaders knew that the Japanese were going to attack, but they figured, correctly, that the Japanese were going to attack on the Asia mainland and in the Phillipines.

I have read many books concerning this attack. The following three titles should be required reading for the World War II enthusiast.

PEARL HARBOR FINAL JUDGEMENT
by Henry C. Clausen and Bruce Lee (probably one of the best books written about the aftermath)

AT DAWN WE SLEPT --- The Untold Story of Pearl Harbor
By Gordon W. Prange

AND I WAS THERE --- Pearl Harbor and Midway Breaking the Secrets
By Rear Admiral Edwin T. Layton, Capt Roger Pineau and John Costello

The Clausen book is by far the best in my opinion, but don't believe me read these books for yourself.

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."

I couldn't make it to Fredericksburg today for the mainland ceremonies as I'm at work. What I did do is bring several of my Pearl Harbor books, a Zero model, and my super-special copy of From Pearl Harbor to Calvary signed by Fuchida for a display at work today.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Do not believe it... these are myths

As for books, I haven't read any of them,but I should and I think I will. One that I have read in the past is the one by Walter Lord about the Titanic, A NIGHT TO REMEMBER. It is very interesting, really puts it in human terms, and Lord has one about Pearl Harbor, DAY OF INFAMY, that should be good reading.

It seems to me that I read that while we deciphered some of the Army code, we never broke the Japanese Navy code( I am not at all sure about this). I do think, however that no president would knowingly allow an enemy to make a sneak attack on a major U S base with the resulting loss of lives, prestige, and ships. I think the American public and/or Congress would have thrown him out if this was true. I am not a FDR expert, but from what I know I don't see such deviousness in his character either. Didn't we already have the Lend Lease Bill that was aiding Britain, and U S public opinion swinging behind Britain and against Hitler?

The history channel that I saw said historians differ on who, if anyone was to blame for our lack at Pearl Harbor, and they certainly don't agree that FDR was to blame for doing it intentionally.

When we don't agree with someone it is easy to impune their motives or patriotism. Lindbergh is an perfect example, he opposed starting the war, but was as patriotic as anyone once it began.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Right, Bill,
We had broken the diplomatic code PURPLE, but not the Japanese Navy JN-25b code which carried operational orders. There was no fly on the wall in IJN HQ with a direct line to FDRs Oval Office either!
Cheers,
David Aiken
a Director: Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc. http://www.pearlharbor-history.org/

On December 6, 1941, US public opinion was highly isolationist---the American people just did not want to get involved in "Europe's War". We were happy to make money off of the British and help them, but not many really wanted to go over there and duke it out with the Nazis. In fact, the Republican party ran on an anti-war platform for 1940. Had Hitler not declared war on the US a couple days after Pearl Harbor, the overwhelming public sentiment would have been that the Pacific War was our war and that the European War was for the Euorpeans. Once Hitler declared war on the US, FDR's job was made 100 times easier for rallying the people against the Nazis. Had Hitler simply done nothing, FDR would have had the difficult task to rally the people to the "Europe First" strategy. Churchill says in his multi-volume work treating the Second World War that he, Churchill, "...slept the sleep of the saved" the night after Hitler declared war on the US and the US declared its strategy to defeat Hitler first.

TonyM.

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"Welcome back Mr. Lasky."