Warbird Information Exchange

[quote="SaxMan"
I've also read that the ball turret was statiscally the safest place. The question is, which position was statistically the least safe? .[/quote]

I would have to say the nose since they encountered so many head on attacks and collisions.

No much protection behind a big plastic bubble!

I can't find the reference, so please excuse if I am incorrect, but IIRC the tail gun position had highest rate of fatalities.

I think "Masters of the Air" by Donald Miller said something like that. (It's all coming back to me. )

The tail gunners were subjected to all the wind chill (from the waist guns in the earlier models,) and fighter attacks and because they were in the most remote part of the A/C if they lost Oxygen or were wounded they were in real trouble.

It was hard to move them if they were wounded, it was hard to get to them to help them and it was hard even know they were in trouble if the intercomm or the Oxygen systems were disabled.

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Support Your Local Warbirds! KBO!
The only reasons the airplanes matter is what the veterans did with them... and why.

I recall reading somewhere that, statistically, the most dangerous B-17 crew position was waist gunner. It makes sense to me. They could be attacked from any direction, they had no armor or structural protection, and they were standing erect at their guns, which made them a bigger target (most other crew members were crouched or sitting). Of course, the enemy made it a priority to try to knock out the tail gunner in order to allow unprotected attacks to be made on the rear of the B-17.

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

TEXAS RAIDERS update...
I sort of lost traction after the first flight and the Air Show and have been bad about:
1. Working on the plane myself
2. Reporting what other folks HAVE been doing
3. Posting on WIX

TEXAS RAIDERS is currently down while we seek a lasting remedy for some cracked exhaust turbo housings.
While we have the ability to put it back together and go fly it, it will only recur and need constant knuckle busting, so we are saving the plane for the more lasting "fix." Once the DER has approved it I will post what we have come up with. Until then it is just idle specualtion to say here's how the cow is going to flatulate the cabbage, so to speak.

We have installed both waist guns and we have the right ammo box re-installed. Larry D. has replaced the side of the ammo box on the left side WG because it had rotted to the point of embarrassment.

Fun question for any of you Ma Deuce specialists.
The crew served 50 cals on aircraft have a feed chute fastened to the side of the receiver that curves downward. The stainless steel feed chutes from the ammo boxes clip onto those.
Here's the quest... Are the screws that fasten the feed chute to the side of the weapon one long screw or two shorter screws? They appear to use 8-32 screws, but it looks like it would be a bear to mount if they take two seperate fasteners.

Nextly... Some of us have been cleaning and removing additional FOD from the fusleage.

We found some of the clamps that hold the green pineapple "Walk-Around" Oxygen bottles to their wooden holders, so those are looking spiffier. Some numb-skull painted them WITHOUT photographing the original stencilling, SO if anyone has photos of non-molested O2 walk-around bottles they could send or post on this thread we can get our crack crew on that project.

Some good work has been done on installing some wooden flooring in order to protect the stringers and skin in what are traditionally spaces used for storage of spare parts and tools.

So it's not like NOTHING has been going on with the B17, I've just been too lazy to give credit where it's due.


spanner

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Support Your Local Warbirds! KBO!
The only reasons the airplanes matter is what the veterans did with them... and why.

I'll try to get some better photos next time I get to the storage hut.

All the best,
PB

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Paul Bellamy

401BG Association Historian & Honorary Life Member
401BG Historical Society (UK) Member
1st Air Division HQ Historical Society (UK) Founder Member
Director of Archives & Collections, Airfield Research Group Archive, Alconbury
RAF Alconbury Base Historian

Thanks Paul.
That is exactly what I was looking for.

And it is re-assurring to see the shade of green too.
I was wondering if our guys were getting over-zealous, but it appears to be spot on.

SPANNER

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Support Your Local Warbirds! KBO!
The only reasons the airplanes matter is what the veterans did with them... and why.

Any updates on Texas Raiders? Pictures mainly.

Will she be at Airventure 2010?

I have a great idea, once Fifi is cleared and back in the air, how bout Texas Raiders, Ol' 927 and Fifi go tour the country like the Collings Foundation does. You could call it the "Sound of Freedom" tour.

Chris

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Chris Williams
B-17 Texas Raiders Supporter.
GCW Member
Keep 'em Flying!

The problem with that idea, fun as it would be, is market saturation. Just how many folks at each stop can afford to ride. That is a big element of keeping the ol' gals in the air. Not enough riders.....cash for gas is short. NOT a good thing. At least that is how I see it happening OR NOT.

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Aviation Illustration Website
http://shepartstudio.com/illustration/

Big Developments so far in 2010...

TEXAS RAIDERS has been approved (granted a waiver) to return to offering what are called Revenue Rides.
This is a major deal, because without it all that we could do is fly the airplane to events that would help subsidize the costs and wave out the window at the folks on the ground as we flew by. And we could still do ground tours...

We have a couple of hurdles to cross before I start carnival barking, "Hurry, Hurry, Step Right Up!" in that we have to get some pilots re-qualified and/or approved to operate the program.

I just got my copy of Warbird Digest and am tickled with getting great press. I know we got some good ink in General Aviation and some other Magazines, but I couldn't find them at my Barnes and Noble this weekend.
Thank you Warbird Digest!

It was so cold in Houston this weekend!
How cold was it?
It was so cold I saw a politician with his hand in HIS OWN pockets!

It was so cold we had to hold our Wing Staff and Unit meetings at another facility because our landlords needed to turn off the water and drain the pipes because we are in a totally un-heated building.
Thanks to the fine folks at Flight Safety- we had a warm place to talk and take care of our bidness, so to speak.

There is more going on, and I hope to have some pictures SOON, so I will save some news for the next post.

Happy New Year everybody!

SPANNER

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Support Your Local Warbirds! KBO!
The only reasons the airplanes matter is what the veterans did with them... and why.

Hopefully your hangar's fire system is foam and NOT drained waterlines! A very real and scary thing with vintage aircraft. Even with insurance, it's not like you can just go out and buy another one (not that anyone can afford replacement insurance!!)

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Aviation Illustration Website
http://shepartstudio.com/illustration/

Now that you mention...
OMG

Hadn't even occurred to me!

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Support Your Local Warbirds! KBO!
The only reasons the airplanes matter is what the veterans did with them... and why.

It could also be a dry pipe system that when triggered fills the empty sprinkler pipes with water which is a slower reaction but better then nothing, (usually used for unheated buildings because the dry system requires higher maintenance when compared to the more common wet system). Given that though I somewhat doubt a system like the dry pipe one would be used in Texas because of the lower threat of pipes freezing, I guess it happens every once in a while!
That aside what a fantastic job seeing this B-17 rise again to its past glory, congrats on all the hard work to all involved!

Usually, the hangar there in Houston IS well heated!

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Aviation Illustration Website
http://shepartstudio.com/illustration/

Ya I can believe that , pretty amazing some of the weather you guys are getting down there as of late, my roommate just got back from a Florida vacation saying everyone down there is wearing coats and hats!