Warbird Information Exchange

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http://www.biplanerides1.com/

Now you've done it!

I wonder how different our world would be today had CAL sucessfully run for President, limiting Roosevelt to only two terms? What if Einstein and Szilard never realized that CAL was "not their man" and the letter's delivery to Roosevelt took another six to twelve months to get to the President's office for action?

On a related note Baldeagle, B.F. Mahoney's grandson wants to come down to the museum at Creve Coeur on Sunday and see your M-1. I had no idea B.F. Mahoney had any children until today when I spoke with Chris Mahoney. I'll take some photos of him with the airplane and post them here if possible.

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Albert Stix Jr.
"Work is the curse of the drinking class"

I have been fascinated with Lindbergh since I was a kid. I think I've read just about every book written about him. Probably one of the most gifted pilots every to fly. His life is an incredible American story: from hero to hated to forgotten.
I'm surprised his life story has not been made into a movie...yet. If you have not read his book, The Spirit of St. Louis, I highly recommend it. It is still a page turner today. Someone once said that it is hard to judge which is his greater achievement: his flight to Paris or the book he wrote about it.
His stance against American involvement in the war in Europe is complicated. He had an eyewitness view of the German war machine and the Nazi's used him as a tool to show the US that they were unstoppable...something Lindbergh fully believed. Lindbergh felt US involvement would bring our country to it's knees. He was horribly misguided. His Wartime Journals are an interesting read on his views of the war and what it was like to fly in combat as a civilian in the Pacific.
He was a complicated man. What did F.Scott Fitzgerald say...Show me a hero, and I'll write you a tragedy...

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

I'll post a photo on the Vintage forum.

I'm still sorting out and formulating my thoughts on CAL. The last few years have really shown him to be a deeply flawed but remarkable person. Had I been a P-38 pilot in the Pacific during WWII, I would have been happy to have him covering me but had I been a P-38 pilot in the ETO, I'm not so sure I would have wanted him at my six.

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Albert Stix Jr.
"Work is the curse of the drinking class"

An interesting character indeed, a ifted pilot and very intelligent man, without a doubt. However, I was left being decidedly NOT a Lindberg fan after reading A Scott Berg's book, I'm afraid. And it never ceases to irritate me how many times I read that he was the first man to fly the Atlantic - even, on at least two occasions, in Bob Hoover's otherwise excellent book 'Forever Flying'.

Can anyone recommend a good book to read about his life and achievements?Whether it be autobiographical or biographical. Thanks

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Flying ,WWII aviation

"Perhaps we'll begin at last to treat our heroes as the complex human animals they've always been, driven by lust as well as idealism, capable of immoral disarray in their personal lives while performing perfectly on the public stage. They should still be heroes for what they accomplished, but they should never be worshiped as idols."

Robert Scheer
5 Nov 1998

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Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps.
— Ernest K. Gann

Two must reads:

A Scott Berg's Lindbergh Covers his entire life. Excellent.

Charles Lindbergh's Autobiographical account of his NY to Paris flight entitled The Spirit of St. Louis. One of the best aviation books I have ever read.

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

I'd also recommend, The Wartime Journals of Charles Lindbbergh published in the 70s.
His thoughts in his own words, read it and decide for yourself.
Can't beat that.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

The Berg book is very long and through. Also KIDNAP , don't have the author here. There is strong evidence that Hauptman was guilty, (some of the ransom money was found hidden in his garage, as well as wood like the homemade ladder used, etc.) but there are still lot's of areas not fully known. I would not be surprised if others might have been involved but got away. Perhaps Bruno did not reveal their complicity because they promised to care for his wife and child. Lindy said he reviewed the evidence carefully and was convinced and he was not a careless man. The real shame is that the baby was killed by accident when the ladder broke and he fell. Bruno was a Father, would he have returned the baby unharmed? We just don't know. As a Father, I can hardly think of anything worse to happen to a young couple.

As for Lindy's speech, note that it is 4 months before the Pearl Harbor attack. Probably the majority of the American public was or had been against a wider war involving America then. There is little in that excerpt from the speech that is not true, for instance that FDR and wider war would add to the debt. The idea that our own Army Air Corp. was weak and needed more planes was certainly true.
What is left out of the speech is the enormous danger that Hitler posed to our allies and there's no mention of Japan. He saw Russia as a real danger, which they became after the war.

Any fair review of Lindy must stress that after the US was attacked, he not only changed his position on the war, but volunteered to serve any way needed and did serve, even flew some combat missions. His advocacy of high manifold pressure and low rpm cruise extended the rang e of the P-38 and other planes so vital in the Pacific. The Brits and others may have know this info, but Lindy made it known to our guys. Prior to that , pilots would waste lot's of gas cruising at perhaps 2400 rpm.

I am no expert on Lindy, but his opposition to the war does not automatically make him anti semitic, I don't see anything that he personally was that way. When he visited Germany before the war he said that they were strong militarily and he was right. The Bits were unprepared and it took a rush program to get their air force enough strength to hold off the Germans. His Dad had been an elected politician, and Lindy felt it was his duty to speak out before the war. That's democracy, and his opposition seems to have been legitamate, not any kind of front for corporations or profit making scheme.

In his war diaries he writes of his disgust for the all too common practice of killing Japanese prisoners rather than having to deal with them. If Lindy did not hold hatred or prejudice against the Japanese then it was probably not part of his makeup.


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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I say well said Bill.

Its a little scary. Just seems like history repeats itself if true.

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Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis
Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: https://www.redbubble.com/people/warbirdwear/shop

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?

Something else to consider is the context of the times Lindbergh lived in. Prejudice and ethnocentrism of various kinds was the norm in American society. My sweet old WWII navy vet grampa shocked the crap out of me when he told me why he asked for duty with the Atlantic fleet over the Pacific fleet. It was wholly racist.

Lindy certainly stepped up and saved a lot of Marine Aviators and Air Corp pilots with his tweaking of the Corsair and Lightning. I recall reading that the guys who flew with him had nothing bad to say about him as either a pilot or person, which I think says a lot.

I am no expert on Lindy, but his opposition to the war does not automatically make him anti semitic, I don't see anything that he personally was that way.
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That may be true that Lindy was not racist. However I can tell you that his mother certainly was. I had an uncle who as a child lived near the Lindberghs in CT. My uncle was Finnish with very fair hair and blue eyes. Lindbergh's mother clearly favored him when neighborhood children came over to play with Lindy's kids. She was even heard to comment on how "Aryan" my uncle looked and that the swarthier looking Greek and Italian kids were "dirty".

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"I can't understand it, I cut it twice and it's still too short!" Robert F. Dupre' 1923-2010 Go With God.

Context is rapidly becoming a lost art in today's instant-everything soundbite driven society. We are too quick to judge the actions and decisions of sixty years ago when measured against our own societal biases and experience... maybe that's just human nature, but it obscures and in some cases corrupts our ability to draw balanced conclusions about the nature of those people and actions from that time. Lindbergh's staunch opposition to the war is one good example; the decision to use the atomic bomb on Japan is another.

I have been an admirer of Lindbergh the man for many, many years, and that admiration only grew after reading Berg's biography and Lindbergh's own writings in his Wartime Journals. He was indeed a complex man, but his core instinct was to do the most good he could, as he saw fit. He tried to keep us out of the war not to save German lives, but to save American ones- and as Bill points out, once we entered the war, he set those reservations aside, and offered to help with the war effort however he could. His work with Dr. Alexis Carrel on his "perfusion pump" became the world's first artificial heart- something very few people realize. He was acutely aware of his fame and was very protective of his name and identity, a trait which only increased over the years following the death of his son in the kidnap attempt, and his public vilification for his association with the America First party.

He was by no means perfect, but he still stands as a towering American icon worthy of our respect and admiration.

Cheers,

Lynn

Kidnap was written by George Waller. It is a blow by blow account of the kidnapping and trial. No conspiracies, just the facts as they happened. A good first read for those who are interested in that aspect of Lindbergh's life...

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."