Coloured WWII Fleet Air Arm photos?

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:19 pm

Does anyone here have any World War Two era Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm aircraft carrier and aeroplane photos? I'd be particularly interested in photos in colour, although black and white is fine too.

I have seen a couple of coloured photos on Google Images of Seafires on a carrier deck in colour so there must be others out there I hope.

I'm working on a film project to record the stories of New Zealanders who flew in the Fleet Air Arm and would love to get some coloured photos to use. Can anyone help please?

The Inspector · **Posted:** Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:34 pm

I know that a Fleet Air Arm website exists and is all about historical things, I used to read it occasionally a few years ago, shouldn't be hard to locate online with a GOOGLE search or through the RNAS museum @Yeovilton

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:59 am

I may have something for you, I will check

Craig59 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:30 pm

You might give the LIFE Magazine archive a try:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life

I've found you have to be very basic in your chosen search words and hope for the best.

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 1:39 pm

Photos edited due to copyright concerns.

lestweforget · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:37 pm

The Fleet Air Arm Archive may be of some help to you.

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Index.html

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:20 pm

Thanks chaps, much appreciated.

Robbie, those photos are excelent. Just the sort of thing I need. And public domain, excelent. Are all the wartime British Government photos classed as public domain now too, like the US ones?? I thought the IWM had a stronghold on their copyright material from WWII.

I have checked out the Fleet Air Arm Archive many times previously and plan to contact them for help soon.

Cheers!

barnbstormer · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:24 pm

Hi Dave; Ask some of your aviation magazine collectors. I do not see one on "google". During the early part of the war or middle part of the war, the US. magazine "FLYING" put out some Special issues. They would run up close to 300 pages each. Here is the (Sept 1942) one they had for the RAF special, and I'm just about positive that I remember seeing a Fleet Air Arm special. These special issues had much large number of color photos than usual. Fantastic color photos and aviation ads in them.

k5083 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:16 pm

There are several Charles Brown colour shots of Royal Navy aircraft collected in volume 3 of "Camera Above the Clouds," including the Barracuda shot posted above.

I don't know why anyone would assume that these are in the public domain. An "artistic work created by the United Kingdom Government" is NOT in the public domain. There is a nice lady who owns the copyright in those photos, her friends call her Liz. Also, "someone else pirated it before me" is not the same as "public domain."

August

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:14 pm

k5083 wrote:

There are several Charles Brown colour shots of Royal Navy aircraft collected in volume 3 of "Camera Above the Clouds," including the Barracuda shot posted above.

I don't know why anyone would assume that these are in the pub.
lic domain. An "artistic work created by the United Kingdom Government" is NOT in the public domain. There is a nice lady who owns the copyright in those photos, her friends call her Liz. Also, "someone else pirated it before me" is not the same as "public domain."

August

I want to clear something up right now! Here is a link to my source for the Barracuda photo, & I have no reason to question the copyright status, espically because of the age of the photo. If I am wrong, I will edit out in photos in question, & am sorry from the bottom of my heart. I have not done anything with ill intent.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... a_Mk_I.jpg

k5083 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:14 pm

I do not know whether that Barracuda photo is protected by copyright or not. Certainly it was at one time. If it was under Crown copyright, then it may have passed into the public domain because the term of pre-1957 Crown copyrighted photographs (50 years from creation) has expired. However, the wikimedia page is incorrect in saying that it was created by an unknown airman of the Fleet Air Arm or Royal Navy. It was created by Charles Brown, who never was in the military or the British government. He photographed freelance for magazines, but also did some commission work for the government. Whether copyright belonged to Brown, to a publisher, or to the Crown may depend on for whom Brown happened to be working, the agreement they had, and on British work-for-hire doctrine. If it belonged to Brown, it would be protected through 2052.

Wikipedia and wikimedia are not trustworthy on the copyright status of individual photographs. They tend to make self-serving assumptions, as in this case, to conclude that material is in the public domain. Robbie, it isn't generally my practice to bust people's chops for posting photos that may be protected, and I have no objection to the posting. I only wanted to correct the oversimplified statements with respect to the public domain. It turns out you were relying on them in good faith, but where wiki is concerned, I would caution against doing so.

August

Robbie Stuart · **Posted:** Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:29 pm

k5083 wrote:

I do not know whether that Barracuda photo is protected by copyright or not. Certainly it was at one time. If it was under Crown copyright, then it may have passed into the public domain because the term of pre-1957 Crown copyrighted photographs (50 years from creation) has expired. However, the wikimedia page is incorrect in saying that it was created by an unknown airman of the Fleet Air Arm or Royal Navy. It was created by Charles Brown, who never was in the military or the British government. He photographed freelance for magazines, but also did some commission work for the government. Whether copyright belonged to Brown, to a publisher, or to the Crown may depend on for whom Brown happened to be working, the agreement they had, and on British work-for-hire doctrine. If it belonged to Brown, it would be protected through 2052.

Wikipedia and wikimedia are not trustworthy on the copyright status of individual photographs. They tend to make self-serving assumptions, as in this case, to conclude that material is in the public domain. Robbie, it isn't generally my practice to bust people's chops for posting photos that may be protected, and I have no objection to the posting. I only wanted to correct the oversimplified statements with respect to the public domain. It turns out you were relying on them in good faith, but where wiki is concerned, I would caution against doing so.

August

Thank you for your reply August. I guess we learn something everyday. :shock:

Regards
Robbie

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Sun Nov 01, 2009 1:57 am

Err, so, were none of those photos useable without tracking down a copyright owner then? Even the US ones?

Bugger.

jdvoss · **Posted:** Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:20 am

Dave:

There is a book that you should acquire entitled: "Fleet Air Arm - British Carrier Aviation 1939-1945" by Ron Mackay, 64 pages It is available from :

Squadron / Signal Publications
1115 Crowley Drive
Carrolton, TX 75011-5010

This publication is an excellent source of crisp period photos including a section on the BPF aircraft. The very back cover has crisp COLOUR period photos of Hellcat, Seafire, Albacore. Also, the cover page lists the photos sources which may be of value to you. In addition there a two pages of color profiles of FAA aircraft.

If you have trouble locatiing the book let me know and I'll see what I can do for you.

Holedigger · **Posted:** Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:02 pm

The Wikimedia Baracuda states below it that it is Now Public Domain

This artistic work created by the United Kingdom Government is in the public domain
This is because it is one of the following:

It is a photograph created by the United Kingdom Government and taken prior to 1 June 1957; or
It is a photograph or an engraving created by the United Kingdom Government and commercially published prior to 1959; or
It is an artistic work other than a photograph or engraving (e.g. a painting) which was created by the United Kingdom Government prior to 1959.
HMSO has declared that the expiry of Crown Copyrights applies worldwide

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Coloured WWII Fleet Air Arm photos?

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