Warbird Information Exchange

I'm sure we have all seen the "Airpower Demonstrations" at airshows where as large a gaggle of aircraft as possible are put into the air and typically fly over at 1,000' AGL.

Do you like to see this at an airshow? Is it quantity over quality? Is it worth the prime airshow time it takes to launch all those airplanes and get them into a loose formation?

Is an Airpower Demonstration more impressive to the seasoned airshow attendee or the newcomer? Why?

Please comment!

I think it's more impressive to the less jaded newcomer. But still, it's a great sight to see airplanes in the air, the more the merrier.

It's also fun to fly in the middle of all those planes. You really put a lot of trust in your fellow pilots to stay flat in their turns so they don't come up into, or down into, your space.

I'd say the sight at an airshow is sort of like fireworks. One firework going up at a time is nice, but the grand finale, where the sky is filled with a bunch of fireworks, is awesome!

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Mike

I may be misunderstanding your question, but, in the past, I have had favorable comments from crowds when participating in the "Trainer Parade" (pre 0-2 days). Large gaggle of L-Birds all the way up to T-28s. However, each group was stacked from 200 AGL to about 1000 AGL with 200' separation between layers. Looked pretty good....still looks good when done by others, now that I'm in the Vietnam furball.

Could that time be put to better use? If so, what?

I like them. It is really great when it is something like B-17s. The P-51 fly over at the Mustang Gathering was incredible.

I've found that when it comes to trainers, a lot of them fly that high anyways, so tossing them into groups makes it more enjoyable for everyone. A single a/c parade at 1000 ft can put me to sleep let along someone just looking for something to do for a Saturday.

spacing the groups with a really great a/c demo with a Mustang, Wildcat or Corsair would really give everyone something to enjoy. The Wildcat flight at the 2008 Thunder was GREAT! I'd love to see more of those.

Tim

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www.tailhookstudio.com

I've always enjoyed large formations of aircraft. The T-6 formation sunset flights at Geneseo were something I always looked forward to.

I remember back in the early 1980's they use to perform a "daisy chain" flight pattern at shows (Oshkosh and TICO that I saw) Several Mustangs and other fighters would follow each other around in a sort of figure eight chandelle. They would end up going both left and right across the flight line, one after the other. I haven't seen this done in many years put I think they still do it in the UK.

I really enjoyed that since it was like a big tail chase with 10-12 aircraft.
Jerry

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"Always remember that, when you enter the ocean or the forest, you are no longer at the top of the food chain."

+1 on the best example I've seen, the Duxford Flying Legends "Balbo".

The Balbi at Duxford and Chino are both excellent, unforgettable.

Possibly the best part is that you get to see the aircraft that have performed in the show start up, take off, and land all over again. Those are normally the closest looks you get at the birds in action, if the show is laid out right, so for me it is a worthwhile encore even without the big formation.

August

Why do you ask, bdk?
The 'Balbo' at Flying Legends is the main example I'm aware of, and as August's said, the surrounding effort is almost as worthwhile as the main flyover. Normally, it's interspersed with Stephen Grey in a fighter doing the 'Joker' routine, which keeps something in front of the crowd while the formation wheels around.

Bear in mind it's not a bunch of trainers, but front line fighters and bombers, usually numbering 25 - 36 or so.

After a couple of passes they usually break into sections of four and two and then fly these sections in long trail at lower display height while the recovery of aircraft starts. It is very impressive and one of the top warbird sights, IMHO.

The 'background' displays I've seen at Oshkosh with T-28 and stuff are nice, but that's not what I'm at Osh for (while i'm sure the T-28, Vans and so forth are) so I'd not miss it.


Does bdk have an agenda here?


Good question. Dunno. Certainly the audience 'impressment-quotient' skyrockets with the decibel level. Most general public are there for the noisy aircraft, although do also bitch when their ears hurt. Waddya want?

So getting warbirds together (safely) to make more noise is probably 'a-good-thing' for impressing the 'here for the noisy jets' crews.

HTH, I commented...

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James K

"Switch on the underwater landing lights"
Emilio Largo, Thunderball.

www.VintageAeroWriter.com

the 2003 corsair gathering show in mt. comfort indiana was a spectacle sight that i still can't imagine!! that was the bomb for me!!! well organized from start to finish over the few days. on the last day there were warbirds buzzing around like a swarm of bees!!

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tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!

Thanks for your comments everyone. The reason I ask is that I was having a discussion with someone about how much value it adds to an airshow. My opinion, which I didn't want to start the thread off with, is that it takes a lot of time during the precious airshow window to pull off. All this to see a whole bunch of aircraft flying in the stratosphere that you've already seen. Again, in my opinion, I prefer to see fewer aircraft going fast, down low in a race track pattern. If a few more different aircraft could be added to the show for the gas burned in the Airpower Demo, that would be my preference. There is always a tradeoff with these things, but I would rather see more/different than seeing the same thing twice- just to have them all up at once. Besides, overhead at 1000' AGL, they aren't as loud as they are flying by over the runway if your goal is more noise.

I realize however that I'm not the only spectator out there, and what floats my boat may be dull and boring to everyone else.

Gotta' agree with both James and Brandon here. I agree with JDK insofar as the best I've seen is the "Balbo" at Duxford. ie. All first line combat a/c.
BUT...I also agree with BDK in the "If it weren't there, I wouldn't miss it."

Mudge the ambivalent

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Land of the free because of the brave

Brandon, you make a good point about the "opportunity cost." From the spectator's standpoint, it's hard to know what that cost might be. If the choice were presented clearly, e.g., "Well, for the money saved by not having the balbo we could bring in a P-39 and a P-51H," then I'd be right there with you on bringing in the additional aircraft instead. My opinion in favor of the balbo was premised on all other things being equal, except maybe the time being taken by more laps for the B-25s. If there's a trade-off in terms of aircraft attending, it would depend on what the options were.

August

I recall Planes of Fame airshows of old (early to mid 1980s) which I really remember warmly, although with age and nostalgia I may be misremembering. They featured everything from WW1 era aircraft, to PTs, BTs, ATs and C-45s, then to WW2 era fighters and bombers, to Unlimited air racers and then to jets. There would always be a few acro or wingwalking type acts thrown in-between to break things up. Seemed like nonstop action to me.

Chino was a different place though back then, since many of the air racers were based there (Dago Red, Super Corsair, Tsunami, Dreadnought) as were a number of the jets (A-4, T-38, T-33s, F-86).