Russian Fortress

F3V · **Posted:** Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:40 pm

According to Roger Freeman, a Flying Fortress fly in the early 1980's in Russia...

Rumor or reality?

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:37 pm

I'm not sure where they would have gotten one. Although the Russians pressured the U.S. for four-engine bombers under lend-lease, I understand the American government refused to supply the Soviet Union with anything that would give them a genuine strategic capability. Of course, they managed to clone the B-29 after interning a couple that made emergency landings in Russian after bombing Japan.

SN

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:58 pm

1st i've heard of the topic!! :?:

Holedigger · **Posted:** Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:25 pm

They WERE there during the war, wouldn't surprise me if a few went "missing". Operation Frantic had Forts doing "shuttle" missions over Germany and continuing to Russia for refueling and a return trip. Some pics here

http://photos.state.gov/libraries/moscow/29754/WWII/

gale_dono · **Joined:** Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:32 pm **Posts:** 328

One of Osprey's "B-17 Units of..." books had color profiles for B-17's that were repaired and flown by the VVS; I can't remember which book, offhand.

edit: This would have been either during or immediately postwar, however.

hang the expense · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:08 am

The Russians salvaged a few and flew them post war and they were scrapped in the early fifties.Shame that none survived as they would be combat veterans.

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:42 am

I don't recall any serious suggestion there was a B-17 in Russia in the early eighties. Being pre- Glasnost and pre- western earning mafia, it sounds unlikely and unconnected to later rumours and real recovered other aircraft types in the 1990s.

Steve Nelson wrote:

Although the Russians pressured the U.S. for four-engine bombers under lend-lease, I understand the American government refused to supply the Soviet Union with anything that would give them a genuine strategic capability.

Got me thinking there. Of course the Russians did have a four engine heavy, but the nature of the war they chose to fight tactical equipment remained a higher priority, and while the Pe-8 was a competitive type in the early war, by the time the US arrived it was probably superseded. I'm not aware they were seriously after strategic kit, although I'm sure they'd have asked for anything and if they were given B-24 and B-17s they'd have been used tactically.

Interesting though:

Quote:

The USSR had no plans for strategic bombardment, and only a few Pe-8 attacks on Germany were flown, the first on 11 August 1941 when aircraft of the 81 DBAD (Long Range Bomber Division) bombed Berlin. Most Pe-8 attacks on Berlin were 'nuisance' bombings involving only a handful of aircraft (e.g. 14 in the first raid). It was used in the strategic bomber role to attack targets in German-held Eastern Europe and as a tactical bomber to support ground forces in the battles of Stalingrad and Kursk. The Pe-8 at first equipped a single bomber regiment, the 432 BAP (ON) (432nd Special Bomber Regiment) and its reserve unit, the 433rd; they were later reorganized into the 746 and 890 BAP (Bomber Regiments).

Quote:

The Pe-8's most important claim to fame is flying Soviet foreign minister Molotov and his delegation from Moscow to London and Washington DC and back for talks on the opening of a second front against Nazi Germany (May 19-Jun 13th, 1942), on the return trip crossing German-controlled airspace without incident.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petlyakov_Pe-8

Intriguing when you consider the Soviets had broken quite a lot of fresh ground with 'large aircraft' from the Great War into the 1930s.

Regards,

rreis · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm **Posts:** 441

I would suggest reading this article in Air&Space...

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/USSR.html

hairy · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:31 am

Just for interests sake, here is a photo I have in my collection...........

........and on the back.

Dave Smith · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:47 am

Yefim Gordon's amazing book US Aircraft in the Soviet Union and Russia,published in the UK last year, says that 73 B-17s of various models were discovered in Eastern Europe. Some where restorable. By Oct 45, the 890th Air Regiment had 16 airworthy B-17s on strength. In the summer of 47, the B-17s were replaced by Tu-4s (cloned B-29s) and subsequently scrapped. Apart from this operational use, as many as seven other B-17s were used as testbeds for avionics etc. It is unlikely that any survived but anything is possible.

Apart from the story of the B-17 negotiations that came to nothing, this book is packed with information and many excellent photos of P-39s, B-25s, A-20s and lots more in Red AF service. Highly recommended and available on Amazon a lot cheaper than the cover price.

jdvoss · **Posted:** Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:53 pm

According to the book "Red Stars Vol 4: Lend Lease Aircraft in Russia" by C-F Geust and G Petrov (pg 202-03) there was a group within the Soviet AF known as the 45th TBAD. They had acquired 23 B-17's nearly all of which were force-landed ships in Soviet Territory. The author of the book lists them all by S/N and provides the USAAF unit code. He goes on to state that " a number of B-17's were used in 1948 in Tu-4 conversion training". Also, one was still flying in 1952 for development of Sokol radar.

FWIW, the 45 TBAD of the 18th Air Army also had 28 B-24 Liberators. All of which were phased out by 1950.

This book is a great reference!! 224 pgs, great descriptive history and photographic record of all US and RAF operated A/C. Photos of Russian C-46, OS2U, O-46, PV-1, Naval P-47's, P-38, P-51A, etc, etc. Colour profiles too. Expensive book but worth it!!

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