Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:42 pm
I want to know if the CAP aircrew flying the Predator Surrogates qualify for the wings. 
Aviation Week Ares Blog - "USAF Taps CAP Volunteers For Green Flag Support"
Aviation Week Ares Blog - "USAF Taps CAP Volunteers For Green Flag Support"
Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:43 pm
Here ya go.
http://www.military.com/news/article/ai ... force-a.nl
Very interesting...still not convinced that they are "pilots" with combat pay and the equivalent stature of a "Randy Haskins". Sorry, I am old school and grew up in the AF under a career pilot's leadership.
This is a new arena, for sure. Wings? Don't think so. I understand the stress but is that any different than a CO who sends pilots into combat? Do the designers of aircraft who "fly" the computer to prove their design get wings as well?
This is going to be interesting.
http://www.military.com/news/article/ai ... force-a.nl
Very interesting...still not convinced that they are "pilots" with combat pay and the equivalent stature of a "Randy Haskins". Sorry, I am old school and grew up in the AF under a career pilot's leadership.
This is a new arena, for sure. Wings? Don't think so. I understand the stress but is that any different than a CO who sends pilots into combat? Do the designers of aircraft who "fly" the computer to prove their design get wings as well?
This is going to be interesting.
Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:06 pm
I don't know but it's been said...
(guess it really was true )
(guess it really was true
)
Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:46 pm
The guy who designed the new wings is a very talented cartoonist, I strongly suggest anyone here should check out his website: http://www.afblues.com/ As for the whole UAV/”real” pilot deal, yeah the manned aircraft advocates have issues with UAV jocks being afforded the same regard when UAV jocks don’t have the same physical issues (getting killed when the bird crashes, misoreintation, etc). In the true “one size fits all” mentality, I have read that UAV operators will be going to E&E school, so they can remain “competitive” against their manned aircraft peers come promotion time. One I talked with a while back told me he had to go through the same flight physical any manned aircraft pilot must go through. I have to withhold personal judgment as I was a ground pounder for the Army and my experience with UAVs is limited to dealing with one once with a FAC party in a CONUS exercise once to spot for a indirect fire mission.
Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:01 pm
I wonder what their "Bold Face" is...
Control-Alt-Del "Reset" (P)
Control-Alt-Del "Reset" (P)
Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:11 pm
hurk130 wrote:I wonder what their "Bold Face" is...
Control-Alt-Del "Reset" (P)
WHOOOOPPPP!!!!!!! Thats great! What a hoot!
Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:31 pm
I feel that they should get flight pay. It is the new era of flight folks.
Space Command does not fly the satellite, they just control the function of it.
Having the stress in which these guy have of 1. Not killing friendlys and 2. Killing non-friendly's should justify them in getting a little increase in pay.
Even though I am now out of the Air Force, I feel that this is a just increase for the stress levels they have to go through.
My 2 pennies.
Space Command does not fly the satellite, they just control the function of it.
Having the stress in which these guy have of 1. Not killing friendlys and 2. Killing non-friendly's should justify them in getting a little increase in pay.
Even though I am now out of the Air Force, I feel that this is a just increase for the stress levels they have to go through.
My 2 pennies.
Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:50 pm
I have been flying for over 15 years now. Flight Pay (to me) was to compensate for the extra study and test you have to do, the increase danger you face from normal jobs and the amount of time you spend separated from your family.
The big stresses in the AF lately has been the loss of orderly rooms, everything going computer base but the IT specialist are at another base on the other side of the US and Finance office is moving to South Dakota for the entire AF, Physical Fitness test rolled in to your performance reports and constant deployments. My Group has been deployed over 2000 days in a row.
All of these changes makes the individual more responsible for all kind of things. You might think "Duh" but it is overwhelming. We haven't even gotten into running your section Professional Military Education, or god forbid your job. I didn't mention everything we have to do to keep ahead of all the requirements.
Those of you on the board that are FE's know you got to know something about flying the plane, instrument flying and be an expert in hydraulics, electrics, fuel systems, engines and emergency procedures. That is why I think I get flight pay...oh, and I have been drinking way too much coffee while typing this. I will calm down when I wake up in a few days. Kel
The big stresses in the AF lately has been the loss of orderly rooms, everything going computer base but the IT specialist are at another base on the other side of the US and Finance office is moving to South Dakota for the entire AF, Physical Fitness test rolled in to your performance reports and constant deployments. My Group has been deployed over 2000 days in a row.
All of these changes makes the individual more responsible for all kind of things. You might think "Duh" but it is overwhelming. We haven't even gotten into running your section Professional Military Education, or god forbid your job. I didn't mention everything we have to do to keep ahead of all the requirements.
Those of you on the board that are FE's know you got to know something about flying the plane, instrument flying and be an expert in hydraulics, electrics, fuel systems, engines and emergency procedures. That is why I think I get flight pay...oh, and I have been drinking way too much coffee while typing this. I will calm down when I wake up in a few days. Kel
Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:08 am
hurk130 wrote:I have been flying for over 15 years now. Flight Pay (to me) was to compensate for the extra study and test you have to do, the increase danger you face from normal jobs and the amount of time you spend separated from your family.
The big stresses in the AF lately has been the loss of orderly rooms, everything going computer base but the IT specialist are at another base on the other side of the US and Finance office is moving to South Dakota for the entire AF, Physical Fitness test rolled in to your performance reports and constant deployments. My Group has been deployed over 2000 days in a row.
All of these changes makes the individual more responsible for all kind of things. You might think "Duh" but it is overwhelming. We haven't even gotten into running your section Professional Military Education, or god forbid your job. I didn't mention everything we have to do to keep ahead of all the requirements.
Those of you on the board that are FE's know you got to know something about flying the plane, instrument flying and be an expert in hydraulics, electrics, fuel systems, engines and emergency procedures. That is why I think I get flight pay...oh, and I have been drinking way too much coffee while typing this. I will calm down when I wake up in a few days. Kel
Get'em "Kel"!
Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:45 pm
hurk130 wrote:Flight Pay (to me) was to compensate for the extra study and test you have to do, the increase danger you face from normal jobs and the amount of time you spend separated from your family.
Flight pay was originally intended to compensate for the added risk of flying. It later evolved into a financial carrot to reduce loss of trained aircrew to the civil sector.
In a UAV there is no inherent risk and certainly no more danger than sitting in a chair. Can't say I see much separation from family unless they deploy these guys into theatre -- completely unnecessary with the datalinks they use to fly with. Lastly, I suspect there's an entire generation of Nintendo/Playstation/X-box players that would love to sign up to fly the ultimate video game. No need for a financial carrot to keep them as there's nowhere else for them to go ..... yet.
What's next, leather jackets, flight suits, and helmets? I'm sure the E&E training will come in handy, as well.
Who mentioned 'pussification of the Air Force'. They might be on to something.
Last edited by L2Driver on Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:32 am
It reminds me of a story about Neil Armstrong at Edwards AFB "O" club. He could play the piano and sing Air Force songs. Some missle guy asked him to play something and Neil told him "I don't know any missleer songs". The point is are the predator "jocks" going to have to write their own songs to sing at the "O" club? Are they going to hire someone to write heroic news articles about how brave they are?
Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:56 am
"Off we go, into the wild, blue...uh...er...cabinet...control room..." Oh well.
Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:21 am
If they want combat and flight pay, make them fly, not sit in a room. If they want to go thru E & E, then when thier UAV is shot down, fly them over the area and kick thier ass out and let them put it to use. The greatest danger they face is eye strain, hemmoroids and carpal tunnel.
Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:13 am
It's going to be very interesting watching this metomorphis of our Air Force. Maybe future wars will be "Computer Games". I can see it now. Say honey! "A bunch of Russians just moved into the neighborhood, we must have lost the Game". These guys are gonna face some resistance until they iron this out.
Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:01 pm
sgt hawk wrote:It's going to be very interesting watching this metomorphis of our Air Force. Maybe future wars will be "Computer Games". I can see it now. Say honey! "A bunch of Russians just moved into the neighborhood, we must have lost the Game". These guys are gonna face some resistance until they iron this out.
Reminds me of Orson Scott Card's Science Fiction story "Ender's Game"
IIRC, they select a youth based upon cunning and aggressiveness and send him to "Battle School" where he fights what he thinks are simulated battles. Except that it becomes apparent that all of his supposedly simulated battles were real, and that he completely destroyed the bad guys.