NA F-86 Sabre, not Saber!

famvburg · **Joined:** Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:41 am **Posts:** 540

I believe the AC-130 is called "Spectre" as opposed to "Specter" as well.

JDK wrote:

Why did North American Aviation choose to spell 'Sabre' the British English way, not the American? (I'm presuming the sword has always been a Saber in modern American usage...)

Any evidence as well as opinion welcome!

(And, I note Buick also chose '-re' on the LeSabre.)

Brad · **Joined:** Thu Apr 29, 2004 10:30 pm **Posts:** 1131

JDK wrote:

Thanks for the input guys. Looks like an oddity to nail.

I'd REALLY appreciate anyone showing a (modern) US military reference to the sword (in dress uniform?) as 'sabre' or 'saber'.

James,

Army dress regs use SabER
USMC dress regs use Sword
USAF dress regs don't mention any of them
USN dress regs use Sword
USCG dress regs use Sword

USAF Honor Guard regs use both sword and SabER

K5DH · **Posted:** Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:59 pm

JBoyle wrote:

JDK wrote:

(And, I note Buick also chose '-re' on the LeSabre.)

JDK

The LeSabre was originally a Buick concept car (called show car or dream car back then) and was named after the F-86...because it had "jet-like" design features. Like a lot of concept car names, it was recycled for use on a production model.
Another GM concept car of the time said it got inspiration from the F-94...but, IIRC I don't think it was the Olds Starfire.

In the 1960s, there was a midsize Oldsmobile called the "F-85". I shudder to think it got is inspiration from the XF-85 Goblin parasite fighter. . . :vom:

. The Olds Cutlass started out as a dressed-up F-85.

On a related but unrelated note, according to Lee Iacocca, the Ford Mustang was NOT named after the airplane. Both the airplane and the car were named after the spirited wild horses of the American plains.

I guess this brings up a possible new thread: What automobiles, worldwide, were named after airplanes?

Cheers,

Mudge · **Posted:** Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:05 pm

Then how come the "Downeaster's", regardless of it's spelling, pronounce it SaybAH? And why do they spell Cuba and pronounce CubER?

Actually WHO CARES? :hide:

Mudge the ennui victim

rreis · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm **Posts:** 441

but a sword is a generic word, it can be a saber/sabre or not...

right?

if I am correct a sabre is a type of sword with slight curved shape (but not an alfange, anyway...)

the image above come from
http://howardlanham.tripod.com/link11d.htm

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:44 pm

In haste, more later - Brad, many thanks, and everyone else too, except Mudge - I think you've got muddled with the B-36 formation team thread. :lol:

Mudge · **Posted:** Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:13 pm

JDK wrote:

In haste, more later - Brad, many thanks, and everyone else too, except Mudge - I think you've got muddled with the B-36 formation team thread. :lol:

James...Often confused, frequently mistaken, but NEVER muddled.

Mudge the disoriented :roll:

Saville · **Joined:** Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:45 am **Posts:** 518

Mudge wrote:

Then how come the "Downeaster's", regardless of it's spelling, pronounce it SaybAH? And why do they spell Cuba and pronounce CubER?

Actually WHO CARES? :hide:

Mudge the ennui victim

Mudge,

Those words are pronounced that way because of the New England:

Law of Conservation of R's

R's are neither created nor destroyed. If you remove an R from one word (Saybah) you must add it to another word (Cuber). Typically, R's are added to words that end in vowels.

So an example of the Conservation Law would be:

"I left my tuner fish sandwich in the draw."

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:11 am

Mudge wrote:

James...Often confused, frequently mistaken, but NEVER muddled.

I think he's Mudggled.

While we may have lost Mudge, what started out as a mild curiosity question has become an enjoyably odd linguistic quest; but hey, not everyone needs to stay with it.

Brad's shown that in appropriate official level US documentation, the term is Saber, as in line with the US spelling revisions and conventions - bringing it (broadly) in like with English pronunciation, unlike the anachronistic British English version, preferred, not surprisingly in Canada, Australia and most of the Commonwealth, but surprisingly, when used by literate Americans as well - against their own language's preferred consistent spelling. Odd.

famvburg wrote:

I believe the AC-130 is called "Spectre" as opposed to "Specter" as well.

http://www.af.mil/information/factsheet ... .asp?id=71
Thanks! USAF site, 'Spectre'. Hmmm.

rreis - I'm not sure of your point? A Sabre, however spelled is the same item which is one specific type of sword; although the type has developed and included other versions, there doesn't seem to be any link to different versions defined by American '-er' and other English '-re' spellings.

Regards, and thanks!

Mudge · **Posted:** Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:47 am

How's this?

I've got your "muggle" right here.

Mudge the mysterious

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:06 am

No no! Not the mysterious white space of can't use the crop tool!" :lol:

John Dupre · **Posted:** Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:39 am

Saville wrote:

Mudge wrote:

Then how come the "Downeaster's", regardless of it's spelling, pronounce it SaybAH? And why do they spell Cuba and pronounce CubER?

Actually WHO CARES? :hide:

Mudge the ennui victim

Mudge,

Those words are pronounced that way because of the New England:

Law of Conservation of R's

R's are neither created nor destroyed. If you remove an R from one word (Saybah) you must add it to another word (Cuber). Typically, R's are added to words that end in vowels.

So an example of the Conservation Law would be:

"I left my tuner fish sandwich in the draw."

I grew up within 30 miles of Marblehead though thankfully on right side of the border and have never heard anyone I ever knew pronounce Cuber or Tuner or even Deer or Dear. In Ne Hampsha the law of conservation of Rs states that whenever possible a single syllable word ending in R is converted into a two syllable word. Example. "Getcha be-ah he-ah."
(Get your beer here.) "I shot a de-ah, de-ah." (I shot a deer, dear.) Although words ending in ar such as car and bar combine with the Law of the Broad A. Example "Pahk the cah in the yahd by the bah." (Park the car in the yard by the bar.)

Now I think I'll have a frappe.

rreis · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm **Posts:** 441

JDK wrote:

rreis - I'm not sure of your point? A Sabre, however spelled is the same item which is one specific type of sword; although the type has developed and included other versions, there doesn't seem to be any link to different versions defined by American '-er' and other English '-re' spellings.

I was just pointing that the services where only the word "sword" is used probably don't use a saber or sabre but other kind of sword. Off course my note is just a footnote. What I'm curious about is why and when the change occurred. In that link, the image is from the "1861 U.S. Ordnance Manual" and it uses the sabre spelling. In the text the author uses saber. I'm always interested in knowing why and how words mutate in every language. Generally there's an interesting story behind it (words and expressions, why they mutate, appear or decay).

Chaz Harris · **Posted:** Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:09 pm

Mudge wrote:

Then how come the "Downeaster's", regardless of it's spelling, pronounce it SaybAH? And why do they spell Cuba and pronounce CubER?

Actually WHO CARES? :hide:

Mudge the ennui victim

Ha!

I live down here and often ask myself that question... :roll:

Also, someone said that a naming contest was held, it's possible that whoever named it was European. Or, they could have just called it that to make it sound fancier.

Chaz

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