Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:33 am
Craig,
That is close. It would be great if anyone that flew this plane could be reunited with it. I will make that one of the goals. Here is some of the planes history from the custody and transfer record. Navy logbook.
That is close. It would be great if anyone that flew this plane could be reunited with it. I will make that one of the goals. Here is some of the planes history from the custody and transfer record. Navy logbook.
Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:02 pm
Nice Project Eric! Been on the road for awhile, just checked in to see this! Im glad to see it will be taken care of, funny to see a plane that old with all the radios and everything. Did this aircraft at 1 point belong to someone restoring it? Someone who might have started restoring it and met the end with some sort of financial problems?
What is the history from 67 to current?
Thanks
Good to hear from ya again!
Dave
What is the history from 67 to current?
Thanks
Good to hear from ya again!
Dave
Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:35 am
Your light with the busted ferrule is a standard part still available, I'd guess from your local FBO parts counter. It's made by GRIMES and is also used as a wingtip light amongst other applications.
And why are you using a torque wrench to remove fasteners? Most torque wrenches will go out of cal if used to loosen or remove nuts or bolts (never mind the 'break away torque' argument, this is a standard torque not a special application). And never ever use a 'wobble' extention, you cannot obtain correct torque if the socket is out of the plane of rotation of the wrench, and the torque applied will lessen if a 'crows foot' is between 90 degrees and the handle and will exceed if between 90 degrees and forward requiring lots of pencil work to calculate out what the correct torque should be. Be sure that lubrication is called for or the values will be wrong, don't grease it up if it's not required and always use the recommended or approved typre of lubrication when torquing.
Example: if the crows foot is @ 4 O'Clock when looking down on the wrench in your hand, the torque calculation will need to be increased to achieve correct tightening due to the shorter 'arm'. If the crows foot is less than 3 O'Clock to Noon(perpendicular to the socket attach point on the wrench) your torque will need to be recalculated lower to tighten to correct values because of the longer or shorter 'arm' of the crows foot to the pivot of the wrench. Never click the wrench more than once on a torque (I hate car shows where the 'ace mechanic' is blazing through the head bolt torques and clicking the wrench 4 or 5 times on each bolt) as every extra click increases the applied torque without accurate values and you will over torque things. The wrench should 'click' during a smooth, even pull (don't 'snatch' the wrench). If you reposition the wrench for another pull and it clicks, back the nut off about one half turn and reapply torque, the wrench 'clicking' as you start to reapply pressure is an inaccurate and lower value and can be dangerous or fatal depending on what you are torquing.
Castellated nuts are easy because you are usually given a 'range of torque application' so start at the lowest recommended value and sneak up on that rascally cotterpin hole, don't go to the top of the range and discover the hole ain't there and NEVER NEVER NEVER back a nut or bolt down to align the cotterpin hole unless it's the front wheel nut on your Chevy (or it is approved in the installation instructions in the manuals). If the cotterpin hole won't line up, get another nut! they ain't all identical.
If you are installing a US style 12 point shouldered nut that has a locking feature in it (the end will be slightly pinched in) that is the locking feature! If the bolt is too long or short and you need to remove it to adjust grip length, get a new nut every time because tightening it down more than once will negate the locking feature and may lead to the nut loosening or coming off and US bolts are very high tensile tension type fasteners that usually hold on fairly important things like flaps and landing gear and horizontal stabs
I teach this stuff every day and it helps to spread the correct info around, didn't want to come off as 'preaching' but correct info makes everyone better at what they do.
And why are you using a torque wrench to remove fasteners? Most torque wrenches will go out of cal if used to loosen or remove nuts or bolts (never mind the 'break away torque' argument, this is a standard torque not a special application). And never ever use a 'wobble' extention, you cannot obtain correct torque if the socket is out of the plane of rotation of the wrench, and the torque applied will lessen if a 'crows foot' is between 90 degrees and the handle and will exceed if between 90 degrees and forward requiring lots of pencil work to calculate out what the correct torque should be. Be sure that lubrication is called for or the values will be wrong, don't grease it up if it's not required and always use the recommended or approved typre of lubrication when torquing.
Example: if the crows foot is @ 4 O'Clock when looking down on the wrench in your hand, the torque calculation will need to be increased to achieve correct tightening due to the shorter 'arm'. If the crows foot is less than 3 O'Clock to Noon(perpendicular to the socket attach point on the wrench) your torque will need to be recalculated lower to tighten to correct values because of the longer or shorter 'arm' of the crows foot to the pivot of the wrench. Never click the wrench more than once on a torque (I hate car shows where the 'ace mechanic' is blazing through the head bolt torques and clicking the wrench 4 or 5 times on each bolt) as every extra click increases the applied torque without accurate values and you will over torque things. The wrench should 'click' during a smooth, even pull (don't 'snatch' the wrench). If you reposition the wrench for another pull and it clicks, back the nut off about one half turn and reapply torque, the wrench 'clicking' as you start to reapply pressure is an inaccurate and lower value and can be dangerous or fatal depending on what you are torquing.
Castellated nuts are easy because you are usually given a 'range of torque application' so start at the lowest recommended value and sneak up on that rascally cotterpin hole, don't go to the top of the range and discover the hole ain't there and NEVER NEVER NEVER back a nut or bolt down to align the cotterpin hole unless it's the front wheel nut on your Chevy (or it is approved in the installation instructions in the manuals). If the cotterpin hole won't line up, get another nut! they ain't all identical.
If you are installing a US style 12 point shouldered nut that has a locking feature in it (the end will be slightly pinched in) that is the locking feature! If the bolt is too long or short and you need to remove it to adjust grip length, get a new nut every time because tightening it down more than once will negate the locking feature and may lead to the nut loosening or coming off and US bolts are very high tensile tension type fasteners that usually hold on fairly important things like flaps and landing gear and horizontal stabs
I teach this stuff every day and it helps to spread the correct info around, didn't want to come off as 'preaching' but correct info makes everyone better at what they do.
Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:35 am
Dave,
The SNB went to Florence Darlington Tech College after the Navy. The school received 5 or 6 SNB's from the Navy. They auctioned them off some time in the 90's. The guy I bought it from got it for the engines. Then put the plane behind his hangar and never touched it again. So no restoration work has ever been done to it till now.
Inspector,
Thanks for the info on torque wrenches. That wrench I used is old and broken and not used for torque setting anymore. I just needed a longer handled wrench to get to a nut. There was only two bolts holding the elevator on.
For all the radio guys, here is a couple pics of one of the radios out of the plane.
The SNB went to Florence Darlington Tech College after the Navy. The school received 5 or 6 SNB's from the Navy. They auctioned them off some time in the 90's. The guy I bought it from got it for the engines. Then put the plane behind his hangar and never touched it again. So no restoration work has ever been done to it till now.
Inspector,
Thanks for the info on torque wrenches. That wrench I used is old and broken and not used for torque setting anymore. I just needed a longer handled wrench to get to a nut. There was only two bolts holding the elevator on.
For all the radio guys, here is a couple pics of one of the radios out of the plane.
parts available
Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:18 am
Hey Eric:
I have a couple of rudders here -- surplus to my needs. Might be some other parts here too?
Send me a PM please.
Carry on!
Mark
1943 SNB-2/5 51242
I have a couple of rudders here -- surplus to my needs. Might be some other parts here too?
Send me a PM please.
Carry on!
Mark
1943 SNB-2/5 51242
Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:32 am
Eric,
Understood, just trying to de mystify things and, as Pink Floyd said in Brain damage on Dark Side of the Moon, 'keep the loonies on the path'
Understood, just trying to de mystify things and, as Pink Floyd said in Brain damage on Dark Side of the Moon, 'keep the loonies on the path'
Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:41 am
retroaviation wrote:Neat! Be sure to give us daily, picture postings of the progress. I hear that WIXers seem to like that method of update.
Congrats on your acquisition.
Gary
Twice daily and a weekly summary!!!!!!
Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:50 am
Chris Brame wrote:That's a REALLY unfortunate place for that big brown spot...
(i am so busted for this...)
Seriously, was this patch American? Note the S instead of Z.
Maybe not for a German.., I hear they are into that sort of thing!
Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:49 pm
Great project, good luck with it! Too many of those are languishing behind barns and hangars.
Somewhere I read an article about how Beech rebuilt all the trainers and wartime transports into C-45G/SNB-5s.
IIRC...Flew them to Oklahoma, cut off fuselages, sent center sections somewhere (I don't think Witchita) and built a new plane around them.
If anyone here has the whole story, I'd love to refresh my memory.
Somewhere I read an article about how Beech rebuilt all the trainers and wartime transports into C-45G/SNB-5s.
IIRC...Flew them to Oklahoma, cut off fuselages, sent center sections somewhere (I don't think Witchita) and built a new plane around them.
If anyone here has the whole story, I'd love to refresh my memory.
Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:36 pm
Eric, best of luck with the Beech.
Ryan you are to be praised for standing up for your convictions, regardless of the opinions of others to the contrary.
We should all give thanks for free speech. By our involvement in this forum we all honor those who died for free speech.
Doug Ratchford
aka Canso42
Ryan you are to be praised for standing up for your convictions, regardless of the opinions of others to the contrary.
We should all give thanks for free speech. By our involvement in this forum we all honor those who died for free speech.
Doug Ratchford
aka Canso42
Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:11 am
Hi everyone,
Update on the project. Things have been going slow but still doing some work. The elevator is all apart and cleaning is started. Will have to replace some parts so will be looking for them.
Also thanks to Mark ( C-45 Driver ) I now have the rudders for the SNB.
Some other parts are coming in from other sources.
I also want to thank the Carolina Aviation Museum for all their help.
http://www.carolinasaviation.org/
Rudders
Update on the project. Things have been going slow but still doing some work. The elevator is all apart and cleaning is started. Will have to replace some parts so will be looking for them.
Also thanks to Mark ( C-45 Driver ) I now have the rudders for the SNB.
Some other parts are coming in from other sources.
I also want to thank the Carolina Aviation Museum for all their help.
http://www.carolinasaviation.org/
Rudders
factory re-build
Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:37 am
JBoyle wrote:Great project, good luck with it! Too many of those are languishing behind barns and hangars.
Somewhere I read an article about how Beech rebuilt all the trainers and wartime transports into C-45G/SNB-5s.
IIRC...Flew them to Oklahoma, cut off fuselages, sent center sections somewhere (I don't think Witchita) and built a new plane around them.
If anyone here has the whole story, I'd love to refresh my memory.
Yep -- Beech did almost 1000 of 'em. The wing panels and empennage were removed, possibly along with the seats and inst panel (?). Engines were O/H'ed and props were changed to Hydramatics as required. The original fuse/gear was crushed, and new parts were built up with an updated, stronger, center section and gear. The 18 has a welded center section that the engine mounts, gear, & outer wing panels attach to; there is no actual 'spar' inboard of the nacelles -- it is a welded tube structure.
The original wings/emp were re-installed, along with O/H'ed engines and either new or O/H'ed props. I do not know about the panel -- was it R&R'd or replaced?
I would expect that some AT11 types were reman'd into the UC-45J/SNB-5 setup at this time, as required by the military.
My sincere congratulations go to the salesman who sold this project to the military -- the O/H process cost the military the same as the complete aircraft did when new (~$50K). Do ya think Beech made some $$$ on this sale??!!
The re-man'd ship carried the same S/N, and time in service was brought fwd -- the ships were not '0 timed'. Mine has about 3500 hrs since this O/H process, and ~13000 total. 1 wing panel was also changed out after a windstorm in the late 50s, otherwise she is more or less 'original', I guess.
BTW the H stab has an SS S/N-BuNo tag on top, in the center. These ships complied with the AD for the fireproof ID tags in the 40s! This tag should be checked for the correct numbers (the H stab *could* have been replaced with one of a different S/N) to make sure the ship complies with the FAA directive. The V fins have similar tags, just in front of the rudder counterweights.
I may have some of this incorrect -- feel free to make corrections!
Carry on!
Mark
Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:17 pm
Hey Mark,
Beech installed data plated for the main components such as each wing panel (near the aileron bellcrank inspection door) top of the horiz, verticals as mentioned and the control surfaces too. The Beech manufacturers data plate for the main airframe was usually on the forward side of the entry door frame. The center section spar data plate was on the vertical tube between the wing attach fittings.
From observations and Beech production files these data plates rarely had matching serial numbers. They seem to be fairly close but it is rare to have more than three or four matching serial numbers on the major components. From original factory documentation I have seen this is the way they came out of the factory.
You will see different prefixes in the serial number for the different branches of service too. For example AF-274 would be Air Force serial 274. N-Navy, A-civil D series, CA-Canadian etc.
It looks like replacement parts had identical data plates without the serial stamps but if they were on at the factory you will find the serial section stamped.
I hope this helps,
Taigh
Beech installed data plated for the main components such as each wing panel (near the aileron bellcrank inspection door) top of the horiz, verticals as mentioned and the control surfaces too. The Beech manufacturers data plate for the main airframe was usually on the forward side of the entry door frame. The center section spar data plate was on the vertical tube between the wing attach fittings.
From observations and Beech production files these data plates rarely had matching serial numbers. They seem to be fairly close but it is rare to have more than three or four matching serial numbers on the major components. From original factory documentation I have seen this is the way they came out of the factory.
You will see different prefixes in the serial number for the different branches of service too. For example AF-274 would be Air Force serial 274. N-Navy, A-civil D series, CA-Canadian etc.
It looks like replacement parts had identical data plates without the serial stamps but if they were on at the factory you will find the serial section stamped.
I hope this helps,
Taigh
Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:05 am
Eric Miller wrote: For all the radio guys, here is a couple pics of one of the radios out of the plane.
That's a BC-348 receiver, part of the long-range Liason radio set. It looks pretty nice inside, and I'll bet it wouldn't take much effort to make it play again. The front panel, knobs, and cabinet would take a bit more work, but they appear to be restorable. You should be able to download the military tech manual for your particular model from the internet. Let me know what dash yours is, and I'll try to locate the manual for you. From looking at the photos, I can only say that it's not a -J, -N, or -Q model.
I'd love to have that dynamotor unit to use in one of my BC-348 restorations. I have three BC-348s that are in original, unmodified condition. Two of them (a -J and a -Q) have their dynamotors; the third one (a -R) is complete and nice, but is lacking the dynamotor. I also have a -H model that I bought for parts, but it turned into a rebuild project. I can't call it a "restoration", because it's not going to be stock when I'm done with it. It was so hacked up that it was not worth trying to truly restore it. This one will be a "user" rather than a "looker-atter".
Keep the restoration photos coming, Eric!
Last edited by K5DH on Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: New project, Navy Beech SNB-5
Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:33 am
Hi everyone,
Sorry for the delay in updates. It's been one of those ( life gets in the way ) things. I finished working on getting my A&P, and have a new job. I'm working at the Asheville Airport for Belle Aircraft Maintenance LLC. Great group of people and great shop. It feels so good to be working in a GA shop again.
Plans for the SNB are, building a trailer rack for moving it, raising more $ for the move, and after the holidays ( in January ) I will be going down and pulling it out of the bushes and start getting it ready to move.
More later.
Sorry for the delay in updates. It's been one of those ( life gets in the way ) things. I finished working on getting my A&P, and have a new job. I'm working at the Asheville Airport for Belle Aircraft Maintenance LLC. Great group of people and great shop. It feels so good to be working in a GA shop again.
Plans for the SNB are, building a trailer rack for moving it, raising more $ for the move, and after the holidays ( in January ) I will be going down and pulling it out of the bushes and start getting it ready to move.
More later.