FAS F-51 Question

[Jack Cook]

Sam Richardson called a little bit ago and asked for info on a FAS F=51 he tried to buy down south a number of years back.
He though it was FAS 409 and was a Cavilier TF-51 displayed on a pole and that after it came north Gordon Plaskett restored it.
Well this would be FAS 404 s/n 44-73458 N4151D now pending sale with Courtesy. Would Sam's a/c really be #404 or another??
He has the original maintenence and erection manuals for the a/c and was thinking of selling them.
Any answers out there???

[Lynn Allen]

How much does he want for the manuals??

[Jack Cook]

He asked me what they were worth and I have no clue. They're marked
for FAS 409 which is cool! The guy in Canada who has the LOU IV wreck made a low offer on them.

[mlenoch]

Original WW2 maintenance manuals do not fetch too much.
Maybe $300 to $600, depending on condition.
VL

[Randy Haskin]

FAS 409 was not a Cavalier, nor was the "TF" FAS 404.

FAS 409 is 45-11559, now "Kimberly Kaye" (N451TB). I'm not sure about it ever being on a pole; Dan Martin flew it back from El Salvador in '74 for Flaherty.

The FAS-404 "TF" was a kit-bashed airplane, constructed by Archie Baldocchi using the crashed remains of the Cavalier TF FAS-400, some bits and pieces from at least one other crashed Cavalier, and a stock Mustang airframe. Post reconstruction into TF and before being sold to Flaherty, it crashed due to an engine problem. Flaherty bought the wreckage, then Plaskett rebuilt it into a flyable airplane in '76/'77. That's the one on Courtesy, N4151D.

[Lone Eagle]

The following comments via FAH 619;

There are 2 versions on the FAS TF-P-51 II.

Version 1: Claims that another TF-51 was flown fm the US c.1970s.

Version 2: Like Randy says, that a FAS TF-51 was re-built in El Salvador using parts from FAS 400 (FAS TF-51 I).Poss other P-51s at the boneyard.

Very few data & pics exist of this so called in-house project. A post July, 1969 picture of a FAS 404 has not emerged yet.

Perhaps Mr.Gordon Plaskett has some pictures of FAS TF-51 II as found,c. 1974 in El Salvador or in the U.S, specially close-ups of the aft cockpit area and vertical stab & help us solve the mystery of the 2nd FAS 404!!!

Thank you guys,

FAH 619 / Lone Eagle

[Randy Haskin]

Version 1: Claims that another TF-51 was flown fm the US c.1970s.

I've never seen any evidence, from any source, to support this claim. Have you?

On the other hand, there is anecdotal evidence, including some words from Archie himself (unfortunately not in black-and-white anywhere) to support the 'rebuild' version.

[Lone Eagle]

Randy;
This reply via FAH 619;

1. No.There is no hard evidence that this event took place for obvious reasons.

2. However, in one of the recent discussions on the FAS forum they mention that the aircraft in the collision in front of the B-26 FAS 602 is the poss FAS TF-51 in question. (Pic FAS Museum). As you can see, judging from the pic it's a grey area. I'm trying to obtain a different angle or a better resolution of the same picture just to compare notes on this subject.

p.s Mr. Baldocchi took lots of pics of FAS aircraft inventory c. 1969-1970s. For some reason, this project or the new FAS 404 (II) evaded the lens.

Thanks,
FAH619 / Lone Eagle

[Randy Haskin]

2. However, in one of the recent discussions on the FAS forum they mention that the aircraft in the collision in front of the B-26 FAS 602 is the poss FAS TF-51 in question. (Pic FAS Museum). As you can see, judging from the pic it's a grey area. I'm trying to obtain a different angle or a better resolution of the same picture just to compare notes on this subject.

I agree that the aircraft in the taxi accident with the A-26 was FAS-404#2.

Just curious what you believe to be 'gray area' about that photo or the accident? There are two shots of the accident that I have seen: the one from the FAS museum website that seems to have been taken from the tower (or some other elevated position), and another taken from ground level.

The photos pretty clearly show that the TF is not FAS 400, but I don't know that it provides any evidence into the theory that the airplane was a TF brought in from another source, versus being one built in-country from the remains of FAS 400. Although the shot from the tower is blurry, it seems to show "404" on the tail of the TF.

[Lone Eagle]

Randy:
Does the second ground picture of the FAS B-26 taxi accident shows any clear numbers? If that is the case, can you post the picture?
Thanks,
FAH 619 / Lone Eagle

[Randy Haskin]

Randy:
Does the second ground picture of the FAS B-26 taxi accident shows any clear numbers? If that is the case, can you post the picture?
Thanks,
FAH 619 / Lone Eagle

No, it is taken from the 10 o'clock position, and the left wing obscures the tail number.

Here is a zoom-and-crop of the photo you've seen...this is the best look at the tail number that I've seen thus far. Looks like a '404' to me.

[Lone Eagle]

Randy:
Any idea of the time frame that your poss FAS404 II pic was taken??
Thanks;
FAH 619 / Lone Eagle

[Randy Haskin]

Nope. Sometime after October 1969 (the earliest date that FAS 400 could have crashed and FAS 404#2 could have been built) and October 1974 when Flaherty bought the wreckage.

Wish I knew more than that.

[Lone Eagle]

Randy;

What we observe from the FAS Forum picture and your close-up of the poss FAS 404 II is a P-51 at Ilopango in the process of being assembled.

It has no FAS insignia on the aft fuselage or a yellow band. The left main gear looks w/o paint or gray just like the L/wing. Also,there seems to be another wing w/o paint laying on the ground behind the tail of the poss FAS 404 II.

What does the ground picture shows of the details of the left wing scheme??

Thanks,
FAH619 / Lone Eagle

[Lone Eagle]

Randy;

Another interesting note to the FAS 400 saga is that this particular aircraft crashed & burned on T/O at Ilopango c. 1970s. The pilot Cpt Echeverria had to rescue the GIB Maj Bustillo who was unconscious. Pictures of this particular crash are also elusive for us to see how much damage was involved for a future in-house project.

Also, as a further note the aircraft that Mr.Gordon Plaskett used for his project was the X FAG 345 TF-51D 44-84660 (plus some other FAS P-51 parts).. that crashed in TX c. Aug-1976. This aircraft also appears with the logo TF-662 & TF-660.

FAH619/ Lone Eagle

Photo Via WIX

Last edited by Lone Eagle on Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.