If I owned a P-51...

daveymac82c · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:11 pm

...what kind of bills would I be looking at paying each year to keep up the "habit?"

Obviously there's the upfront cost of the airplane... say $1.8Mill for a good one, but what I'm most interested in learning about are all the costs that you don't think about or have a clue about until you're headlong into ownership.

Annual Insurance?
Annual Inspection?
Annual Oil costs?
Hangaring?
Fuel costs /hr?
Regular maintenance (to be expected during a year of ops)?
Other?

Is ownership of a P-51 or similar a habit that can be kept up or is it really a black hole for money?

Cheers,

David (the Dreamer)

snj-5 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:22 pm

I have an idea as far as the numbers go, but I'll let P-51 owners chime in with the actual costs.

But the joke goes like this:

How much money would it take to own, insure and fly a [insert type of aircraft here]?

Answer = "All of it!". :lol:

Bela P. Havasreti

Ztex · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:45 pm

What was it Eric said about owning a Skyraider?

Something like; Take a hand full of $100 bills and start throwing them in the fire...when its gets to where that does not bother you anymore...then your ready.

I found it...this stuck with me for some reason....
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=161829#161829

daveymac82c · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:18 pm

I like EDowning's description of what it takes to know you're ready.

I'm certainly not ready. Throwing pennies into a fire seems like a waste to me.. haha...

I'm more interested in knowing what it'll truly cost so I know what I'll need to do to make it happen. Possibly work three jobs at the same time for 5 years or more, then throw it all into some kind of miracle investment that will give me 30%+ return.... hahaha..... funny eh?

But in all seriousness, what would it take?

Cheers,

David

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:21 pm

Staying out of debt, coming up with some good idea and being an entrepreneur, and investing wisely, I'm guessing...

Ryan

Ztex · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:56 pm

Yeah it would be interesting to have an idea of the costs.

rwdfresno · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:30 pm

Like they say: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

Ryan

daveymac82c · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:44 pm

I KNOW I can't afford a P-51 right now. I don't really care if I can afford it right now either, but I am curious to hear what it costs from the people that know. Cuz, one day I'm going to own a P-51, mark my words.

Are there any people out there that could describe to me some specific numbers of what it costs to run a P-51? or a Havard/Texan for that matter?

I really mean no offense at all, because I know nobody's being personal, but I'm not interested in hearing answers like "If you have to ask you can't afford it."

like I said, I'm not interested in knowing if I can afford it. I just want to know what it costs, from people that can afford it.

The way I see it, if you were to win the lottery, you could probably buy a P-51 Mustang for X amount of dollars, but what happens next? After buying the airplane, what other expenses will pop up?

Cheers and safe flying,

David

P.S. I'm sure there are other people here on WIX that would be interest in hearing the answers to my questions too.

rwdfresno · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:13 pm

Davey, sincerelly I think the point that most who commented are trying to make is that saving up enough money to buy a P-51 isn't going to likely be a successful approach to purchasing and maintaing a P-51 in flyable condition. What I would do is focus on planning your life in such a way that you get to the point where you no longer NEED to ask how much does it cost. When you think about all the potential costs involved including blowing an engine, where are you storing it, what your property tax situation will be like, how many hours are you flying it, what are your current type certifications etc. You basically have to get to the point where you can absorb any of those issues with your current income. The focus at this point is how are you going to get to the point where you no longer have to ask how much will this cost me over time.

If you want to know some basic statistics you can read this http://courtesyaircraft.com and click on "Aircraft Profiles" on the right hand side. Beyond this there are a lot of costs like insurance, property taxes, costs of component break fixes, etc, etc, etc. Something like a T-6, or Stearman the average ambitous Joe can afford to repair etc, but when you get into fighter and bomber aircraft I think seriously need to focus on how you become extra-average Joe, increase your income or net worth to the point where you no longer need to worry about where you are goign to get hte money for a prop overhaul. Several years ago when many purchased these aircraft it wasn't as much the case, but now days the costs are so high, if you have to make an excel spreadsheet to find out when you can afford to own and operate it, you can't afford it.

Ryan

Nathan · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:11 pm

daveymac82c wrote:

...what kind of bills would I be looking at paying each year to keep up the "habit?"

Obviously there's the upfront cost of the airplane... say $1.8Mill for a good one, but what I'm most interested in learning about are all the costs that you don't think about or have a clue about until you're headlong into ownership.

Annual Insurance?
Annual Inspection?
Annual Oil costs?
Hangaring?
Fuel costs /hr?
Regular maintenance (to be expected during a year of ops)?
Other?

Is ownership of a P-51 or similar a habit that can be kept up or is it really a black hole for money?

Cheers,

David (the Dreamer)

I'm surprised you didn't get chewed out for asking that question. I know I would have. :roll:

Holedigger · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:16 pm

.....and all the folk who take shots at Mr Weeks, I know he has ruffled a few feathers in his day, but the operational cost of his collection/overhead/maint/facility!!!!!! Boggles the mind. Yes it is a very pricey affair to own and fly A warbird, let alone a squadron!

snj-5 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:25 pm

So you don't like our jokes... That's OK!

Here are some numbers:

P-51 Insrance = around $30K / year
T-6 Insurance = around $4K - $5K / year

A friend who had access to a P-51 a number of years
ago told me his gas bill was $3K/month (this was back when
avgas was $2.50 - $3.00 / gallon).

Avgas is about $5/gallon now, so take 60 gallons per hour (cruise fuel
burn in a P-51) times $5/gallon = $300 dollars per hour for fuel.

Annual inspection... Depends on if you drop it off and say "call me
when it's done" or if you take an active role in maintaining your
own aircraft (no doubt, this is different on a P-51 than it is on
your average / typical GA aircraft...).

Hangar - Depends on where.... $200 - $2K+/month.

Ongoing maintenance - I have no idea on a Mustang.... but I've heard
the crank in the Merlin can't be re-ground, so guys tend to pull them apart
for overhaul after several hundred hours of operation, so depending
upon how many hours per year you intend to fly it, figure in a per-hour
engine overhaul reserve (just like you would on any other airplane!).

Hope that helps!

Now Vlado can fill us in on the real costs (if he so chooses). :shock:

Bela P. Havasreti

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11330

I've heard about $90K for an engine overhaul and you have to do heads and banks somewhere in between.

rreis · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:42 pm **Posts:** 441

Some numbers are mentioned here:

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-avi ... tangs.html

Obergrafeter · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:31 pm

Hangar rent? You just get one and bring it down to the secret bunker and I'll put you up pro bono.

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