HA-1112-M1L-Buchon's

bomberflight · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:35 pm

I made a visit to the excellent Air Zoo at Kalamazoo in early August '08.

The lighting does seem to put a colour cast on the Buchon and I haven't been able to fully correct it in photoshop ~ but here goes .....

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:17 pm

I've been around that aircraft for the better part of two decades, and have seen her in many differentl lighting condtions, uncluding outdoors. The color is a deep blue, with a very slight purplish cast. The closest parallel I can think of is the blue used on Michigan State Police cars. I have no idea whether it's accurate..every original pic I've ever seen of Spanish 109s, 111s, and Ju-52s shows them in silver paint above, and light sky blue underneath.

SN

Speedy · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:50 pm

Augsburgeagle wrote:

Interesting points but, as far as I know only a few actual German airframes were sent to Spain the majority were licence built, I think Hans Ditte claimed that his machine was one of the German airframed Buchons but that is only something I heard.
As to wether a Buchon re-engineered to a 109 should wear a historical german scheme is a bit different. I am bit biased when it comes to buchons as 109's, lets face the facts here the last chance we had to see a real 109 flying as original as it gets was Black 6 and those days are gone. I dont have a problem with using a wreck and a Buchon to create a 109, nearly all the components required to create a 109 internally are still avaliable, if not expensive, and if you do it as accurately as possible and re-create a Buchon airframe to 109 standard using all WW2 german components then in my eyes you no longer have a buchon but a 109 and it would be more correct to use the german identity.

I suppose you turn the other way during the Tora routine then, with all those imposters posting as the Zeros, Kates, and Val's eh?

DarenC1 · **Joined:** Sun May 07, 2006 8:10 am **Posts:** 235

Speedy wrote:

Augsburgeagle wrote:

Interesting points but, as far as I know only a few actual German airframes were sent to Spain the majority were licence built, I think Hans Ditte claimed that his machine was one of the German airframed Buchons but that is only something I heard.
As to wether a Buchon re-engineered to a 109 should wear a historical german scheme is a bit different. I am bit biased when it comes to buchons as 109's, lets face the facts here the last chance we had to see a real 109 flying as original as it gets was Black 6 and those days are gone. I dont have a problem with using a wreck and a Buchon to create a 109, nearly all the components required to create a 109 internally are still avaliable, if not expensive, and if you do it as accurately as possible and re-create a Buchon airframe to 109 standard using all WW2 german components then in my eyes you no longer have a buchon but a 109 and it would be more correct to use the german identity.

I suppose you turn the other way during the Tora routine then, with all those imposters posting as the Zeros, Kates, and Val's eh?

Hardly the same thing. Those Tora! replicas are just that - replicas. Everyone knows it, and nobody argues it.

The Buchon/109 saga is different. Slapping a DB onto a Buchon does not make it a Bf109G (in my eyes), but 99% of the public who view these aircraft in flight/in museums won't know or care. They represent something which would otherwise have gone the way of the dodo (as do the Tora! replicas, I suppose, but they've never been accused of being something they're not).

k5083 · **Posted:** Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:41 pm

Speedy wrote:

I suppose you turn the other way during the Tora routine then, with all those imposters posting as the Zeros, Kates, and Val's eh?

Actually, that is when I head for the hot dog stand.

August

Jerry O'Neill · **Posted:** Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:33 pm

A Merlin sounds different than a Damlier.

No matter how it was kitbashed together, seeing AND hearing a Damlier powered Hispanoscmitt is as close as many of us will ever get to seeing AND hearing a real BF-109.

I'm hapy to have any of both versions flying, no matter the pedigree.
Jerry

Steve T · **Posted:** Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:36 pm

August--

I knew you were going to post some sort of rejoinder about the Tora "impostors"...

Jerry--

Sure does sound different. The Griffonesque staccato barking at taxi revs, the otherworldly wail when sifting in for a pass...Mr Russell's 109E may have been built in Essex, but she's a sight and sound I never thought I'd the slightest chance of seeing or hearing. (Thanx, Mr R, for showing her off!)

Re the blue scheme on HA1112s, I think the reason you don't typically see that livery generally on restored examples is simply that it was the earlier of two main EdA finishes; they ended up in the silver/sky blue, and thus that's the scheme they'd tend to remain in as museum pieces, if they stayed Spanish-marked at all. K'zoo's is different...it was displayed in pseudo-Bf109 markings for some years before being returned to EdA finish in the 80s (to my astonished delight when I visited and saw the Buchon newly displayed as...a Buchon!). The royal-blue scheme is really striking, and I'm thinking the Air Zoo saw it that way too.

Israeli markings on a Buchon would look cool. Wrong, of course, but cool. Hm. How about flying one for a season in grey-green primer (replicating the Czech finish) and Sqn 101 IAF markings, before going Luftwaffe or EdA with permanent paint? Any restorers up for such an idea? One could make a film about the early days of the IAF while one was at it...hmmmm...

S.

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:06 am

Quote:

Re the blue scheme on HA1112s, I think the reason you don't typically see that livery generally on restored examples is simply that it was the earlier of two main EdA finishes; they ended up in the silver/sky blue, and thus that's the scheme they'd tend to remain in as museum pieces, if they stayed Spanish-marked at all. K'zoo's is different...it was displayed in pseudo-Bf109 markings for some years before being returned to EdA finish in the 80s (to my astonished delight when I visited and saw the Buchon newly displayed as...a Buchon!). The royal-blue scheme is really striking, and I'm thinking the Air Zoo saw it that way too.

Thanks for the info! I agree..it's great that the Air Zoo decided to restore their Buchon in her original Spanish colors. The first time I saw her in '84, she was still wearing her Luftwaffish markings. I also agree that the deep blue is really striking.

SN

PeterA · **Posted:** Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:07 am

Forty years, almost to the day, of the World Premiere in London of the 'Battle of Britain', I think it would be very appropriate to see one of these Buchons back in its film markings...a genuine livery.

The BoB fleet -what was it at the time, something like the World's 35th largest Air Force.

PeterA

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:58 pm

Still dreaming to see that sight reconstructed once again. Just like that. 4 straight BoB 109s in full movie livery.

And with the treasures located in Big Springs who knows?

Heres to seeing more of the Merlin and DB 109s taking to the skies in the years to come! Would be nice to see some more owners and collectors in North America willing to buy a "Bad Guy" to chase around the skies. Be it 109 or 190.

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