Airworthy Zeros?

[DarenC1]

I'm talking about the real thing here, not the Tora! birds.

Planes of Fame have one, and I'm thinking the CAF do as well. Is there not another kicking about with a P&W up front?

[Chad Veich]

Is there not another kicking about with a P&W up front?

Owned by a Los Angelas businessman and sitting outside at Mojave is the last info I read. And let's not forget the "Blayd" Zero which, last I heard, had somehow transformed from replica to rebuild.

[muddyboots]

CAF at Camarillo have one.

[Matt Gunsch]

There is only 1 true Zero, and that is Planes of Fame, there are 3 others with P&W 1830s on the nose, the CAF, the Mohave Zero, Blayd, and Paul Allen has a 2 seater about done.

[stumac]

Matt, I am sorry to tell you but the Zero's other then Planes of Fame are very much real Zero's. The Zero that Tom Thomas owned is probably the most authentic of the Zero's out there. It has a Pratt & Whitney on the front of it (so it can fly) and the origional Sakae sitting in a stand next to the airplane the way it was recovered from the jungle. If you were to talk to Bruce Lockwood he would tell you how the airplanes that were rebuilt in Russia are more authentic because everything was done in metric over there just like origional.
BTW: Tom's airplane (that he recently sold) hasn't been in Mojave for at least four or five years now.

[warbird1]

Also, don't forget the two airworthy Zero's that Japanese business man Nobuo Harada has. He has one A6M5 and an A6M2, both are built to airworthy specifications, and have operable running Sakae engines, but unfortunately the Japanese civil aviation authority would not let him fly the planes. I believe the A6M5 was donated to the Kamikaze museum, while he still has the A6M2. They could both be flown if it weren't for the bureaucratic red tape which has unfortunately swallowed both airframes.

Also, as mentioned, Paul Allen has a total of 3 Zero's. The two-seater should take flight by the end of the year. The other two are substantial remains in need of restoration.

[Matt Gunsch]

Also, don't forget the two airworthy Zero's that Japanese business man Nobuo Harada has. He has one A6M5 and an A6M2, both are built to airworthy specifications, and have operable running Sakae engines, but unfortunately the Japanese civil aviation authority would not let him fly the planes. I believe the A6M5 was donated to the Kamikaze museum, while he still has the A6M2. They could both be flown if it weren't for the bureaucratic red tape which has unfortunately swallowed both airframes.

Also, as mentioned, Paul Allen has a total of 3 Zero's. The two-seater should take flight by the end of the year. The other two are substantial remains in need of restoration.

They may have been restored to airworthy standards, but until they fly, they are not proven airworthy.
Like is like saying all the ex Champlin planes are airworthy, becuase they used to fly.

[SaxMan]

In an article of Flight Journal by Corky Meyer, who was one of the pilots who tested the Zero captured in Alaska, he noted:

"Another item I noticed was that the Nakajima Sakae 21 engine had an exact replicea of the Pratt & Whitney Logo complete with the eagle with "Nakajima" in Japanese script, but with the words "Dependability and Reliability" in English"

So, it sounds like the Sakae was a Japanese version of the P&W. Therefore, wouldn't hanging a P&W off the front of a Zero still be faithful to the original design?

[Matt Gunsch]

The Sakae engine I looked at in Santa Monica looked like a 1830, but it is not a direct copy, it is it's own engine design

[bdk]

Matt, I am sorry to tell you but the Zero's other then Planes of Fame are very much real Zero's.

What percentage are they original though? If they were remanufactured from corroded wrecks, probably not much. The Planes of Fame Zero was never a wreck and has always been a complete airframe.

[lvkeith83]

Matt, I am sorry to tell you but the Zero's other then Planes of Fame are very much real Zero's. The Zero that Tom Thomas owned is probably the most authentic of the Zero's out there. It has a Pratt & Whitney on the front of it (so it can fly) and the origional Sakae sitting in a stand next to the airplane the way it was recovered from the jungle. If you were to talk to Bruce Lockwood he would tell you how the airplanes that were rebuilt in Russia are more authentic because everything was done in metric over there just like origional.
BTW: Tom's airplane (that he recently sold) hasn't been in Mojave for at least four or five years now.

The recently sold Zero is in a hangar @ VNY

[Matt Gunsch]

of the Santa Monica planes, I saw the first one undergoing restoration before they were shipped off to Russia. The tail cone was nothing more than formers and stringers. I asked how much was original Zero, they pointed to a couple of green painted pieces near the tailwheel, that was original Zero. so if I had to guess, I would say, 95% was new build, with mostly gear, and large castings and heavy parts from original planes.

They really were not much more then draw a outline of a Zero on the floor and fill it in with airplane.

[bdk]

Some info from a lurker:

I couldn't help e-mailing you after reading the Warbirds Resource Group message boards. just a few points...The Sakae 21 is 1705 cubic inches. it has 14 cyls but that is where the commonality to the P&W 1830 ends. Pistons, rods, crank, nose reduction, carburetor, blower and oil system are all different (they don't even look like a P&W at all). It does share a lot of common things like the fuel pump is a Pesco design, the T-6 generator bolts right on, the prop governor has a Ham Std stamp on it (original Japanese stamp).

The Zero captured in Alaska had a Sakae 12. It is in no way like an 1830. These are old stories that simply aren't true plus I think a lot of so called experts back in the day really did not know these details.

The Zeros built in Russia are very nice replicas. The Santa Monica Zero had many real Zero parts on it. lots of ribs and stringers, landing gear and bits. The second "Thomas" one had a few less and the final Paul Allen one did not have any real Zero parts. Nice but maybe should be considered more like the new build FW190.

The Planes of Fame Zero is the original machine as it was when it was captured from Saipan in 1944. Except for some sheet metal including new spars, it is original. The engine is the Sakae 31 which is a 21 improved, with a carburator, using an adapter plate, from a B-24, a starter from a P-63, a gen from a T-6 and brakes adapted to the original wheels from a Mustang. The rudder pedals and master cyls are from the Sanders modded Sea Fury design. American instruments fit right in the same instrument panel, a KX-155 radio and a Concord battery.

We rebuilt our Zero to fly in 1978. We have flown it more then 500 hrs without any problems and it is still flying. As you know it is a very good running machine.

[warbird1]

Also, don't forget the two airworthy Zero's that Japanese business man Nobuo Harada has. He has one A6M5 and an A6M2, both are built to airworthy specifications, and have operable running Sakae engines, but unfortunately the Japanese civil aviation authority would not let him fly the planes. I believe the A6M5 was donated to the Kamikaze museum, while he still has the A6M2. They could both be flown if it weren't for the bureaucratic red tape which has unfortunately swallowed both airframes.

Also, as mentioned, Paul Allen has a total of 3 Zero's. The two-seater should take flight by the end of the year. The other two are substantial remains in need of restoration.

They may have been restored to airworthy standards, but until they fly, they are not proven airworthy.
Like is like saying all the ex Champlin planes are airworthy, becuase they used to fly.

This is true. I just wanted to point out some potentially airworthy Zero's - if they ever got sold out of Japan, they could be put in the air very easily. Also, Harada had every intention of putting them in the air. They were not built simply to be considered "airworthy", he actually planned on flying them in Japan. The whole restoration was done with this in mind. But of course, the bureaucrats had a different idea.

I don't disagree with what you said, however.

[warbird1]

of the Santa Monica planes, I saw the first one undergoing restoration before they were shipped off to Russia. The tail cone was nothing more than formers and stringers. I asked how much was original Zero, they pointed to a couple of green painted pieces near the tailwheel, that was original Zero. so if I had to guess, I would say, 95% was new build, with mostly gear, and large castings and heavy parts from original planes.

They really were not much more then draw a outline of a Zero on the floor and fill it in with airplane.

I saw them at SMO also. I spent the day at the old MOF and spent a great deal of time talking to Bruce Lockwood about the Zero's and their impending restoration. At that time, in about '91 or so, just the stringers and formers were on the fuselage jig. The wings hadn't been started yet. This was before they got shipped off to Russia to be finished. I specifically asked Bruce how many original parts were going to be utilized in the first Zero, and he estimated that approximately 10% of the original parts would be used.

So good guess on the 95% new build!