[Aviation Art] Slice & Dice: air combat over Japan, 1946

lestweforget · **Posted:** Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:42 am

Hi Tom. There is an informative website about Japanese experimental aircraft here http://www.j-aircraft.org/xplanes/

The question of what ifs had the war gone on another year is indeed frightning. Those who nowadays question the morals of bombing during the war should ponder the facts. What if the raw materials had been readily available, the factories hadn't needed to be dispersed, fuel had been plentiful, prototypes hadn't been damaged and destroyed, labour hadn't been disrupted? The list could go on. Hard times called for hard measures.

As for the question of the invasion of Japan, that is truly frightning!! All you have to do is look at Saipan, Iwo Jima, Tarawa, and still you aren't close to the human cost in my opinion.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:53 am

lestweforget wrote:

The question of what ifs had the war gone on another year is indeed frightning. Those who nowadays question the morals of bombing during the war should ponder the facts. What if the raw materials had been readily available, the factories hadn't needed to be dispersed, fuel had been plentiful, prototypes hadn't been damaged and destroyed, labour hadn't been disrupted? The list could go on. Hard times called for hard measures.

As for the question of the invasion of Japan, that is truly frightning!! All you have to do is look at Saipan, Iwo Jima, Tarawa, and still you aren't close to the human cost in my opinion.

The Japanese mindset was indeed frightening, but I personally think that the "what-ifs" are somewhat misleading. Despite the possibilities, they WERE almost out of fuel, WERE running out of critical materials, WERE seriously disrupted, and frankly, a decent submarine blockade for another year or so with an occasional bombing run to destroy airfields might have done the trick quite well without the loss of life proposed for the invasion.

Ryan

lestweforget · **Posted:** Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:05 am

Yes, what-ifs are always going to be just conjecture. That's the thing. A valid point Ryan. It's human nature to think about them though, as history can't be changed.

Skyraider3D · **Posted:** Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:31 pm

Great to see the discussion still going!

Pogmusic, the Ki-98 was supposed to be manufactured in Manchuria, so we could have La-9s and Pe-8s (or better: Projekt T's) instead!

In the available timeframe the P-51/B-35 combo worked best though, as I had created a 3D model of the former already and the latter saved me making a fuselage!

Thanks for the compliment James!

Many thanks for the support Holedigger! Indeed print sales leave something to be desired, sadly...

And they're not expensive you know!

Lestweforget, the J-21/J-21R is a very cool aircraft indeed. I actually have excellent drawings for these machines... but so much to do, so little time! The link you posted is a website from the same author that wrote the Japanese Secret Projects book, by the way.

Tom, one possible 1946 scenario that fascinates/horrifies me is the possibility of mass kamikaze attacks in dedicated cheaply built aircraft such as the Ki-115. It would be a horrific experience for all involved. I started making a 3D model of this plane, also for this book, but ran out of time on that one. Attached how far I got with it. I still hope to finish it one day, as I really like the clunky looks of it. It's about as near a "post-apocalyptic" style design as you can get!

Still lots to be done...!

the330thbg · **Joined:** Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:06 pm **Posts:** 2713

Contrary to popular belief the B-29's, at least in the 330th were never escorted by P-51's into combat. They would navigate the P-51's from Iwo to do their own missions over the empire, but the visions of P-51's shooting Zeros down while B-29's drop bombs did not occur. I can assure you that Bakas were used against the 330th as their jet engines were easy to spot in the night sky as they raced toward the bombers. At least for the 330th, none of them struck home. Most ran out of gas and crashed into the sea. There were no P-51 aircraft escorting B-29's on the night fire bombing missions. Bakas were there!

JägerMarty · **Posted:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:07 am

Great work there Ronnie

still waiting on a Ta152 print :idea:

Skyraider3D · **Posted:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:01 pm

JägerMarty wrote:

still waiting on a Ta152 print :idea:

I'd love to as the 190 series are my favourite after the Skyraider. But it's unlikely to happen unless I am being commissioned. My to-do list is ever growing and that's mostly commissioned work, let alone "hobby" subjects...

Ironically I have been commissioned the '152 twice and twice it was cancelled before I got very far. No luck thusfar, but 3 times a charm!

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:20 pm

the330thbg wrote:

Contrary to popular belief the B-29's, at least in the 330th were never escorted by P-51's into combat. They would navigate the P-51's from Iwo to do their own missions over the empire, but the visions of P-51's shooting Zeros down while B-29's drop bombs did not occur. I can assure you that Bakas were used against the 330th as their jet engines were easy to spot in the night sky as they raced toward the bombers. At least for the 330th, none of them struck home. Most ran out of gas and crashed into the sea. There were no P-51 aircraft escorting B-29's on the night fire bombing missions. Bakas were there!

Well, the 45th FS certainly did some B-29 escort work... One of my friends from the squadron (Mr. Brown) was shot down - most likely by a B-29 gunner - over Tokyo Bay on 5/29/45!

I have them flying escort missions on 4/7, 4/12, 4,26, 4/30, 5/19, 5/29, 6/1, 6/7, 6/15, 6/26, 7/22, 8/7, and 8/10/45 over Japan. They did do a lot of strikes and sweeps as well, but the above mentioned dates were specifically escort missions.

Ryan

Skyraider3D · **Posted:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:42 pm

I can recommend the Osprey title on VLR Mustangs on this subject, written by Carl Molesworth.

Part of the escort work involved sweeping the skies clear ahead of the B-29s, not as much close escort. This may have given B-29 crews the impresison they were often alone. The P-51 was not suited to night escort duties.

RyanShort1 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:55 pm

Skyraider3D wrote:

Part of the escort work involved sweeping the skies clear ahead of the B-29s, not as much close escort. This may have given B-29 crews the impresison they were often alone.

This is my impression as well from personal interviews with VLR P-51 guys off Iwo.

Ryan

Skyraider3D · **Posted:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:54 pm

Great to hear you had the chance to meet some of these pilots. Through my artwork I got in contact with several 8th AF Mustang pilots and it is fantastic to hear about their experiences. My 20's were nowhere near as exciting, that's for sure!

Speaking of Iwo Jima-based escorts, here's a test render I made of my 3D Mustang model in authentic 531st FS/21st FG colours (as is the side profile in my first post).

Of course it lacks pilot and the propeller is decidedly static, but it was just a test to see how realistic I could make it look. The backdrop is a photo, but the plane is all 'fake'... 3D.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:46 am

that is 1 good looking piece of phoney baloney!! looks like the real deal, sans the pilot & still prop!! great job.

Holedigger · **Posted:** Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:17 am

Very nice blend of reflection, specularity and "grunge". That is a hard thing to nail and you have NAILED IT! It is a very subtle thing.

Django · **Posted:** Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:11 pm

Wow Ronnie, that Mustang rendering is incredible!

bax101 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:46 pm

Thats some incredible work!!! Maybe you should make a video game about such a topic. I would play it if it came out for the PS3. Those images already look like stills for a developing game itself.

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[Aviation Art] Slice & Dice: air combat over Japan, 1946

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