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Navy Plane found in Otay Lakes, San Diego, CA

Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:56 pm

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/ ... dex=135432


Search for fish unearths history

Navy to inspect plane spotted in Otay lake

By Ed Zieralski

Union-Tribune Staff Writer
2:00 a.m. July 21, 2009

The United States built about 30,000 planes in the overall Helldiver family, such as this SB2C-1 Helldiver on a flight in 1941. (Associated Press file) - Bass fishermen see the craziest things on their electronic fish finders, but San Diego angler Duane Johnson couldn't believe what he spotted as he was idling across Lower Otay Reservoir.
“I turned to my fishing buddy and said, ‘That looks like a plane,’ ” Johnson said.
He downloaded the images from his Humminbird Fish Finder and shared them with Bryan Norris, reservoir keeper for the city of San Diego's water department. An investigation began and now Johnson's incredible discovery in February has led divers to uncover a Navy bomber that was forced into a water landing 64 years ago.
On Thursday, Navy divers from Coronado, ranger-divers for the city's lakes system and a private company from Chicago experienced in recovering aircraft from the Great Lakes will try to see whether the SB2C-4 Helldiver is worth salvaging.
If restored, the aircraft could end up in a museum — like the handful on display across the country.
“This is our bread and butter. It's just great stuff for our guys to be involved in right now,” said Nelson Manville, assistant lakes manager for San Diego. “It's an international story with all sorts of twists and turns. Here's a plane that played a big role in World War II and it's been stuck down there at Lower Otay.”
Navy officials were at the reservoir yesterday to prepare for the operation Thursday. About 12 Navy divers will head down approximately 85 feet to inspect the plane, snap photographs and possibly take video, said Navy spokeswoman Lt. Kate Raia.
“We want to see its condition, structural integrity, how much sediment is in the plane, the environment around it,” Raia said. “At this point, we need to know if it's even feasible to pull up the aircraft.”
On May 28, 1945, the SB2C-4 Helldiver was on a practice bombing run from a nearby aircraft carrier. The crew members survived the emergency landing.
At the time, the Navy opted not to recover the plane.
Yesterday, Raia said she couldn't comment on how long it will take Navy officials to decide whether to salvage the plane. Typically, the Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola, Fla., plays a major role in the evaluation process.
One of the pilots is believed to be 90 years old and living in Michigan, but the Navy hasn't provided his name.
“Wouldn't that be something to fly him out here and have him standing on the shoreline when they lift the plane out?” Manville said.
Manville has been working on the project since February with his ranger-diver team and is excited about the Navy becoming involved.
“They're going to need quite a bit of government money to lift this plane, and restoration of it will cost around $400,000,” Manville said. “I've done a lot of research on these planes and, from what I've found, there aren't many like this in the world right now.”
The United States built about 30,000 planes in the overall Helldiver family, but most of them crashed or were shot down during World War II. The aircraft suffered from structural weaknesses, an unreliable electrical system and engines that often stalled — the problem that caused the landing at Lower Otay Reservoir.
Manville wasn't sure what effect the salvaging process would have on recreational activities at the lake, which is open Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays for boating and fishing.
“There aren't any armaments on (the plane), which is a good thing,” he said. “But there will be some fuel and hydraulic fluid that we need to be careful with if it's recovered.”
Lower Otay, or Savage Dam, was built in 1919. Its current users include the U.S. Olympic rowing teams, which conduct training sessions at the site.
The reservoir is located close to Upper Otay Lake, where the famous Florida-largemouth-bass hatchery in the 1960s started the big-bass fishing craze in the West.
After Johnson told San Diego officials about seeing the outline of a plane in Lower Otay, Manville sent ranger-divers Jim Miller and Kevin Kidd-Tackaberry to check it. They used the city's remotely operated vehicle — a tethered, underwater robot — to video the aircraft.
Once they discovered that it was a Navy plane, Miller and Kidd-Tackaberry returned to the spot and took more footage.
“One of the reasons this took so much time is that we had to send the video back to the Navy so they could assess it,” Manville said. “They got back to us and said they were very interested because this is an important plane to them.”
The SB2C-4 Helldiver first saw war action in late 1943 with a heavy raid on the major Japanese base of Rabaul. They were flown from the Navy's new Essex Class aircraft carrier Bunker Hill.
Their last significant action was in the Philippine Sea battle of June 1944.
“I hope if the Navy decides to take it out of the water that I'm there to see it,” said Johnson, 33, who owns Western Flooring in San Diego. “That would be cool.”
Union-Tribune

Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:18 pm

SB2C-4 Helldiver Bureau Number 19886 (VB-14) ditched in Otay Lake, CA 28th May 1945.

Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:28 pm

I used to fish there when I was at NASNI but never heard a word about a plane at the bottom.

400,000.00 recovery..I'll bet the navy

Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:51 pm

decides to destroy it in place rather than do the right thing, pull it up, and let someone restore it to flight.

???

Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:01 pm

“They're going to need quite a bit of government money to lift this plane, and restoration of it will cost around $400,000,” Manville said. “

There expert on recovery and restoration is the assistant lakes manager :shock: :roll:
They won't be spending $$. They'll just say Taras get this one for us and you can have one in the compound or keep the next one you pull up :idea:

Re: Navy Plane found in Otay Lakes, San Diego, CA

Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:22 pm

Jesse C. wrote:“They're going to need quite a bit of government money to lift this plane...”


Is that the kind they print themselves without working for? :?

I guess the average Joe would never expect that something like this would have any commercial value, the same type that thinks that all museums are publically funded.

Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:29 pm

We'll have to keep half and eye on this one.

Didn't realize that most of them were shot down or crashed, silly me, I thought the NAVY scrapped the majority of them!!! Well if most of them crashed or were shot down, no wonder they are so rare! :roll:

Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:48 pm

and 30,000 in the helldiver family? i count 7000 SB2Cs, 5936 SBDs, and 9836 TBFs, [if that's the family they are talking about] that's 22,772, 7,228 short of that 30,000 family. What are the other 7,228 planes in this family of aircraft. I also thought most were scrapped, NOT lost in combat. All in all I would like to see another SB2C around. If flying, GREAT. If static, still not so bad. There sure are precious few Helldivers around. Heck, Pensacola doesn't even have one any more.

Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:17 pm

Holedigger wrote:We'll have to keep half and eye on this one.

Been doing that a while now...patience, just a little longer.. :D
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... light=otay

Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:13 pm

airnutz wrote:
Holedigger wrote:We'll have to keep half and eye on this one.

Been doing that a while now...patience, just a little longer.. :D
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... light=otay


Love the quote from bdk, "I would be surprised that a readily identifiable aircraft wouldn't have already been discovered with a 3D fishfinder." His instincts were right on, but apparently the fishermen weren't paying close enough attention until now... :)

Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:22 am

haul it up!!

Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:44 am

It would be a great and much needed aircraft for the NMNA!

Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:26 am

TBDude wrote:Love the quote from bdk, "I would be surprised that a readily identifiable aircraft wouldn't have already been discovered with a 3D fishfinder." His instincts were right on, but apparently the fishermen weren't paying close enough attention until now... :)
If only I had taken up fishing rather than flying. But then I wouldn't have any interest in airplanes and wouldn't have noticed it. Maybe I should ask for a finders fee? :lol:

Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:31 am

In 2007 I informed the expanding USMC Air Musem at Miramar of the existance of this SB2C in Otay Reservoir. At the time they seeemed to show interest in doing an exploration but apparently it fell on deaf ears!!!

The details (as presented to the Air Museum) are as follows:

Bu No. 19884, belly landing into lake when engine failed on a bombing target in Otay reservoir. A normal, wheels up, flaps down forced landing was made in Otay lake. May 1945.

Complete loss of aircraft

Pilot: Ens. E.D. Frazer - OK
Passenger: Joseph Metz T-5 U.S. Army - OK

Thu Jul 23, 2009 5:33 pm

Reports from the first dives indicate the plane is intact, but deeply buried in sediment -- good for preservation, daunting for recovery.

See the article here...

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/jul/23/bn23plane133154/

I'm sure we'll be getting more details soon.
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