Warbird Information Exchange

Looking at my F4U-5 'Order of Production' numbers again, it looks as if they never reached the number '631'. The F4U-5, -5N, -5NL, and -5P were produced in lots that ranged from a single aircraft, upwards to anywhere from 11 to 18 aircraft. The Bureau Numbers were assigned in numerical order of course, but the production order of the lots was not. Because of this, the production (serial) numbers on these aircraft do not directly correspond with the Bureau Numbers.

The production numbers for the F4U-5 series reached '568' with the production of the final F4U-5N, BuNo.124724. The production numbers associated with the F4U-7 series were in the '800 -900' range, so I'm thinking probably your flap might have originally belonged to an AU-1 model, which immediately proceeded F4U-5 production. The first 100 AU-1's were produced after the F4U-5 series, and before the F4U-7 series. The 63rd AU-1 off the assembly line was BuNo.129381, which is the Bureau Number that would correspond with production number '631'.

Here's a rough cut and paste of the F4U-5 production order information I'm talking about.


(Model) (BuNo.'s) (Order Of Production) (Quantity)
F4U-5
121793 thru 121803 1 - 11 11
121805 thru 121815 13 - 23 11
121817 thru 121831 25 - 39 15
121834 thru 121851 42 - 59 18
121854 thru 121871 62 - 79 18
121875 thru 121890 83 - 98 16
121894 thru 121911 102 - 119 18
121916 thru 121931 124 - 139 16
121937 thru 121951 145 - 159 15
121958 thru 121972 166 - 180 15
121979 thru 121994 187 - 202 16
122003 thru 122014 211 - 222 12
122023 thru 122036 231 - 244 14
122041 thru 122044 249 - 252 4
122049 thru 122057 257 - 265 9
122066 274 1
122153 thru 122166 275 - 288 14

(233)

F4U-5N
121816 24 1
121832 and 121833 40 - 41 2
121852 and 121853 60 - 61 2
121872 thru 121874 80 - 82 3
121891 thru 121893 99 - 101 3
121912 thru 121915 120 - 123 4
121932 thru 121935 140 - 143 4
121952 thru 121955 160 - 163 4
121973 thru 121976 181 - 184 4
121995 thru 121998 203 - 206 4
122015 thru 122018 223 - 226 4
122037 thru 122040 245 - 248 4
122058 thru 122061 266 - 269 4
122175 thru 122206 297 - 328 32
123144 thru 123203 329 - 388 60
124441 thru 124503 389 - 451 63
124523 471 1
124710 thru 124724 554 - 568 15

(214)

F4U-5NL
124504 thru 124522 452 - 470 19
124524 thru 124560 472 - 508 37
124665 thru 124709 509 - 553 45

(101)

F4U-5P
121804 12 1
121936 144 1
121956 and 121957 164 - 165 2
121977 and 121978 185 - 186 2
121999 thru 122002 207 - 210 4
122019 thru 122022 227 - 230 4
122045 thru 122048 253 - 256 4
122062 thru 122065 270 - 273 4
122167 thru 122174 289 - 296 8

(30)

Total: 568

_________________
Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

Lone Eagle,
Help me out. I see three Corsairs in this image above. I assume that xFAH 603 BU123168 is the one in the center of the photo with the wings folded, correct?

The one on the left with just the tail showing is F4U-4 xFAH 616, correct?

Is that a Corsair center section on the ground beyond the plane with the wings folded? If so, do you know what FAH # and BU # it was?

I recall that the tail cone (fuselage aft of the cockpit) that we got was not missing any sheet metal, the skin was intact. I guess it would be helpful to know all the BU#s on the -5 Corsairs that were in the Junkyard. More photos of the junkyard would be helpful and so would be John Mullen's photos of the Hollywood Wings parts after they were unloaded in CA.

_________________
Albert Stix Jr.
"Work is the curse of the drinking class"

Al, regarding your questions, the following via FAH 619;

1. We'll work on cool diagram with drawings showing the aircraft locations for better ID.

2. Yes, the aircraft that you referred behind FAH 603 with a center section laying on the gound is FAH 608 Buno 124493!

3. Now we are curious of what kind of tail cone your father ended up?? Do you have pictures of the tail section itself L/S & R/S views??

4. We have other views of the fuselages at the FAH boneyard that we shared with Rob before as well as some drawings. We'll post others shots fm Calif via Mr/ Al Ware c. 1980s of the fueselages that he saw in the area.

p.s Nice find with the clean photo of the wing flap F4U/AU-1/AU-7 ID plate. If there is someone that would find its background is Rob. Good job. Do you have any more pics of the center section of your aircraft??

neatest, most interesting historical thread I've seen in a long time here

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Life's a Pitts

I agree Jaybird, it is interesting to try to figure this out. I know that for many people, this is a purely academic "snipe hunt" that should be abandonded. On the other hand, I think that with the help of the other WIXers who have posted, we might discover what parts went into making the -5 currently flying as BU 123168.

Lone Eagle, I'll continue to search for more photos, both from my father's files and if possible, from John Mullen's files. The photographs from the trip to look at the project planes and the photos taken when John picked up our parts pile will be helpful. The aft fuselage photos will probably provide some answers but I guess it's increasingly likely that we had the center section of one -5 and the aft fuselage of another. Here's two more shots, sorry they don't provide many clues.





Looking back on it, the idea of trying to overhaul the R-2800-32W in the hangar and install it in the plane was a really silly and misguided idea. If anyone ever wondered why the -5 had such a "hose nose", this photo of the -32W more or less explains it.

_________________
Albert Stix Jr.
"Work is the curse of the drinking class"

As per the notes I shared on page one, I can not see some of the other specifics as described from the center section of BuNo.124493.



After another look at the entirety of these notes, I noticed that the center and aft fuselage of BuNo.123168 had already been sold and removed from the site by that time. Also, the center dsection and aft fuselage from BuNo.124493 were the F4U-5 components still remaining at the time, leading me to believe that you guys must have retrieved the matched set. Everything else was F4U-4 material, and all of it can otherwise be accounted for.

_________________
Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

Bob Hood and Niels Gustafson went to Honduras in i think 1974 and purchased some Corsairs. Do they fit into this thread?

Bob Hood's expedition was actually to El Salvador. The Salvadoran Corsairs actually fought against the Corsairs flown by Honduras during the war between those two countries in 1969.

I know that Merle Gustafson was active with F4U's back in those days, but I've never heard the name Niels Gustafson. Was he associated with Bob Hood somehow?

_________________
Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

Sorry! Got my countries and First names mixed up. DOH!

Al:
The following comments via Seagull 619;
"Included this time is a pic the fuselage of FAH 608 ( center aircraft) Buno 124493 out of action & resting since c.1957 at the FAH boneyard at Tegucigalpa. (Due to cannibalization).

You can see the degree of paint oxidation on the original Navy dark blue paint after some 22 yrs at the mercy of the elements at the Toncontin base.

FAH 603 poss Buno 123168 on the other hand, looks still kind of "blueish" since its forced landing accident at Toncontin c. Feb 1967.

Plz take a look a both aircraft for scheme comparisons with the one your father bought c. 1980 and how you remembered when it arrived home.

p.s The wing on the bottom R/hand corner looks like the one in your photobucket gallery. That was the L/wing of FAH 607 Buno 124692.



Photo T.R via c/w collection

If you look closely at the area of the fuselage just above the left flap in both photos, there is a small dark spot (skin damage?) that's unmistakable and unique. Also, looking at Alberts photo below, you can see that the oxidation on the forward side of the fuselage has been rubbed off, most likely during disassembly in Honduras. I think it's unmistakably the same center section.

_________________
Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

R. Mears;
The following comments via Seagull 619;

"Rob, I'm the first to admit that finding the true id's of these aircraft is getting interesting! Your detailed observations on FAH 608 are correct plus 2 more not previously noted.

Can the Aussie folks helps us with some type of ID plate, photo with a S/n?? So, what BUNO do they actually have??

Al, are the date of the bare fuselages known to you?? Are those the pictures your father took or are they someone else pics??

..and last but not least, were does the Buno 123168 come from??

p.s Rob, do you have pics of Buno 124692 cockpit area when it Pete bought it??

Lone Eagle,
The photos of the "bare" fuselage were taken by either myself of my father probably between 1980 and 1982. I spoke with John Mullen's son this evening and he said that it's not likely that he will have any information but he will look. John was not a prolific photographer but being a nuclear physicist, he took lots of notes. His work was very secretive after 1981 and he was in the habit of destroying old paperwork so I doubt his son or I will find anything helpful regarding the Corsair. My mother has located a large box of aviation photos so I'll start searching through them this weekend.

I did not post these two photos on the Photobucket page because the slide images are very blurry. One of them shows what appears to be a three digit number on one of the tail wheel gear doors. It will not prove anything but I'll try to read it by using the slide projector.





I see what you mean about the "star and bar" in your image Lone Eagle. It does seem to match the one in the photo of the wing in our hangar. On the other hand, I guess these ex Navy/Marine markings would have been on most of the FAH -5 Corsairs?



The set of wings that we got did not have a Radar dome, at least I sure don't recall seeing one in our parts pile. I do not recall seeing evidence of a dome on the right wing that we got so I do not think we had FAH 603's right wing. Your photos of x FAH 603 BU123168 also shows skin removed from the left rear side of the fuselage and I know our rear fuselage was in good shape. Based on what Rob has noted and after looking at your photos of the planes in the junkyard at Tegucigalpa, I'm leaning back toward our center section and tail being x FAH 608 BU124493.

The -5 that we sold Pete Thelen is the same plane that he completed and sold to Doug Arnold. If that plane is/was x FAH 608 BU124493 then the -5 in Australia being worked on by OZFURYFAN for Graham Hosking must be a different -5. And of course this would mean that the -5 currently flying as x FAH 603 BU123168 is really x FAH 608 BU124493. Right?

_________________
Albert Stix Jr.
"Work is the curse of the drinking class"

That's correct Albert, but to make things more confusing, the the plane flying as "123168" was never acknowledged by the previous owner as actually being 123168, so it still actually flies as "122179"! At least that's the number still painted on the fuselage. I had presumed its identity was actually 123168 through process of elimination because that was the only BuNo. that remained unaccounted for from Honduras. Now that it's apparent that 124493 was the airframe restored by Thelen and sold to the UK, it's obvious that the real 123168 is unmistakably the airframe currently under restoration with Graham Hoskings in Australia. The remains of the real 122179 are currently being restorated in France.

Lone Eagle, I have a copy of the bill of sale from Fuerzas Armadas de Honduras that includes "603 - 123168" as one of the dismantled F4U-5N's sold to Hollywood Wings. I'll try to upload that document and post it here after work today. Unfortunately I don't have any photos of the instrument panel after Pete Thelen bought it.

_________________
Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

I think I saw this corsair in pieces in the 80's in Ft Lauderdale. It was on the floor of the hangar and I was looking at the A-1E that eventually went to Eric Downing.

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tracers work both ways