RB-66C Shot down in East Germany in 1964

[CrewDawg]

Funny, I never heard anything about it until I was talking to my mom about my dad's old military records. He was a crew chief on B-66's in France in the early'60's. Launched out his bird and she didn't come home! That sucks. The crew ejected and made it out safely only to be captured by the East Germans. They all made it back to the States. I'm trying to track them down.

RB-66C 54-0451 belonging to the 19th Tac Recon Sq, 10th Tac Recon Wing, Toul-Rosieres, France March 10, 1964
Shot down by East German Mig-21 over Gardelegen East Germany.
Capt. David I. Holland - Pilot
Captain Melvin J. Kessler - Instructor Navigator
1st Lt. Harold Welch - Navigator

I always heard about Francis Gary Powers, but not a "lowly" RB-66.

Interesting tidbit, I thought I'd share.

I'm still trying to track down his F-100 days in the mid-'50's. He once told me how he followed an F-100F all the way through the NAA factory and when it came off the end it was his jet. He crewed it for a General King and flew with the General taking it around to NATO countries showing off the F-100. I'd love to figure out what the tail number of that airplane was and if it's still around by some miracle.

Word of advice for those of you with family members who are veterans, don't wait until they're gone to get their stories and thier history. I got a little out of my dad, but I know there were more stories that I never heard.

[Jack Cook]

We lost quite a few a/c over the the Soviet block nations

[mike13]

How about the really "lowly" Swedish Tp79 (C-47) ,79001 operating in a SIGINT role that was shot down by a MiG-15 on June 13 , 1952. It's story and subsequent raising from the Baltic in international waters but within the Swedish economic zone were related in the March/April 2004 issue of Air Enthusiast (No110) and a further profile and note in the June 2004 Flypast (No 275)
The Swedes also used their old Junkers Ju86 aircraft in that role in the 40's
Somewhere I've got a lost of around a hundred or so aircraft lost during the Cold war that I ran across on the Internet. The US has lost Connies , PB4Y's,etc. Even the not so very well known Martin P4M tangled with a MiG-15 but the tail gunner got lucky and the Mercator came out on top of that meeting.
mike13

[JDK]

There were a lot more attacks and losses than we heard about in the Cold War, like Jack said - the data's out there now (maybe more we haven't heard about) but no-one waves it about.

Powers' U-2 was high profile because the Soviets made an example of it.

Last edited by JDK on Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Rauhbatz]

Greetings....

My neighbor down the street flew as a radar operator in RB-66s then; he also has contributed some of his pics to Flypast and other publications.

If its OK with you I can inquire about this incident....

[Holedigger]

Here is a link to one of the many lists of "incidents" involving US AC during the cold war. Though it does not mention your specific case.
http://www.aiipowmia.com/koreacw/cwpw_loss.html

[Jack Cook]

Mat Matson who's so posts here periodically flew RB-57s over all of eastern europe in the 50-60s and took lots of pictures. One of his a/c is still flying with NASA.

[old iron]

So, how often were Russian aircraft "straying" across our lines? Were we more typically the aggressor in these border incidents?

[CrewDawg]

Rauhtbatz, by all means inquire away. I appreciate you taking the time and effort!

Excellent link Holedigger, I never had any idea there were so many. Amazing how secret the government can keep some things before the days of the internet and home video camera's!

[Holedigger]

Here is another list and it does mention the RB-66 shoot down (near the bottom of the list) not much detail though. I know I've seen a better list somewhere so I'm still looking.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=22303

another, more detailed list
http://air-combat.suite101.com/article. ... he_soviets

[Larry Kraus]

Bill,

There's a fairly detailed account of this incident along with a very thorough history of the entire B-66 program in the book "Glory Days" by Wolfgang W.E.Samuel.

[CrewDawg]

Thanks Larry! I'll check around and see if I can find a copy.

[Pogmusic]

In response to Old Iron, most of the Soviet aircraft were shot at by cameras. The Bear, Badgers et al were all escorted back to international airspace. Now, Aeroflot aircraft flying into the west were reported to have sigint & photo equipment on board. A recently released story talked about how the west did that too when we flew into Warsaw Pact countries.

[old iron]

In response to Old Iron, most of the Soviet aircraft were shot at by cameras. The Bear, Badgers et al were all escorted back to international airspace. Now, Aeroflot aircraft flying into the west were reported to have sigint & photo equipment on board. A recently released story talked about how the west did that too when we flew into Warsaw Pact countries.

That makes sense. Are there any cases of Russian / East block aircraft being shot down over on our side of the border?

[Thomas K]

My dad was stationed at Toul-Rosieres AB when the plane was shot down. He was a clerk-typist and typed some of the reports on the incident. I went to junior high with the navigator's son. His name was Charles Kessler. Note that the plane was silver/gray and not camo and were photo-recon aircraft. There was no gun at the rear. The RB-66's were replaced at the base by RF-4C's in 1965, or maybe early 1966. The Americans left by 1967 after France pulled out of NATO. The base went to the French AF and was later decommissioned. It is now a solar energy farm