Warbird Information Exchange

No, the information I am getting from site suggests that it was recently removed, and that there may be photos of the aircraft relatively intact in the lake prior to removal of the cockpit?

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Three of them got lost and ran out of fuel, resulting in forced landings near Watson Lake. The three airplanes that crash landed that day:

B-26 # 40-1459, piloted by 2Lt. E.S. Avery
B-26 # 40-1464, piloted by 2Lt. W.J. Dancer
B-26 # 40-1502, piloted by 1Lt. G.A. Doolittle

Further, two airplanes were involved in accidents upon take-off from White Horse and landing at landing at Watson Lake. They were:

B-26 # 40-1461, piloted by 1Lt. J.G. Pickard; crash while taking off from White Horse.
B-26 # 40-1453, piloted by 2Lt. G.S. Stevens; crashed while landing at Watson Lake.

Do you think the diver said Grummans and mean the trusty old delivery truck?
Cheers,

David

Blake,

thanks for those photos, an interesting comment you make in them is that the local divers refer to "two" Grummans being in the lake, given the recovery of 1 Martin Maraulder cockpit, and suggestions it was removed from a complete airframe does this suggest that there are "two" surviving in the Lake relatively intact? (with apparantly at least three being listed as forced down at Watsons Lake?, as per TonyM's post in the other thread on this story)



An excellent outcome for the surviving population if so?


I was wondering if your side scan located the rear fuselage of the Lincoln in the lake, which is reputed to remain in the lake not on the shore, and apparantly visible from boats and the air?

regards

Mark Pilkington

Quote:
Three of them got lost and ran out of fuel, resulting in forced landings near Watson Lake. The three airplanes that crash landed that day:

B-26 # 40-1459, piloted by 2Lt. E.S. Avery
B-26 # 40-1464, piloted by 2Lt. W.J. Dancer
B-26 # 40-1502, piloted by 1Lt. G.A. Doolittle

Further, two airplanes were involved in accidents upon take-off from White Horse and landing at landing at Watson Lake. They were:

B-26 # 40-1461, piloted by 1Lt. J.G. Pickard; crash while taking off from White Horse.
B-26 # 40-1453, piloted by 2Lt. G.S. Stevens; crashed while landing at Watson Lake.

Guys,

Those three listed as crashing near Watson Lake are the surviving population. They are the planes at Fantasy of Flight, MAPS, and Pima that Tallichet recovered 30 years ago. Everybody seems to be getting themselves worked up about a whole lot of not too much here. One of my coworkers was interviewed by the CBC about all this. As I understand it all that was found in the lake was the nose. The people who recovered it were still looking to see if there was anything else when the RCMP busted up the party. This find is cool, but a gold mine of recoverable B-26s it 'aint.

James

Varis had performed other searches for aircraft on lake and ocean bottoms and is seen here studying the monitor for indication of interesting targets on the bottom of Watson Lake. Several "possibles" appeared but nothing with a distinctly "airplane" look to it.

In June 2009 a B-26 nose-section was raised from the lake by a family from Alberta, which came as a surprise to me. We had seen a large blip on our sonar monitor but the shape made us think it was a truck. I became aware of the possibility of 2 airplanes on the bottom of Watson Lake in 1992 when I met a diver on the lake who claimed to regularly dive on 2 planes and had sat in the cockpit.

I took this picture at Watson Lake in June 1991 of local diver Todd Boulton from Upper Liard. I asked his partner if there was anything in the lake that was interesting from a diving point of view and he said that there was lots of interesting things including Jeeps, tools and 2 airplanes that he called "grummans." He said that Todd had photos of these things but I was unable to track him down in the days afterwards to see the photos. All this came as a surprise to me because I had done a thorough side-scan of the lake in September 1986. It also came as a surprise to me when in June 2009 the nose-section of a B-26 was raised from the deep area just off the end of the runway.

Two charged after raising WWII bomber from lake


'The Flying Prostitute' crashed en route to aid Russia in 1942
Jun 05, 2009 04:41 PM

Bob Weber
THE CANADIAN PRESS

The fate of a derelict Second World War bomber once nicknamed ``The Flying Prostitute" is up in the air since two Calgary brothers fished part of it out of a remote Yukon lake.

The brothers want to complete the salvage and see the B-26 Marauder restored and placed in a museum. But the territorial government, suspecting a profit motive, has grounded their plans and is charging the pair with violating the territory's heritage legislation.

"Our past is not to be peddled," Jeff Hunston of the Heritage Resources Department said Friday. "We want our heritage in the Yukon."

The B-26 was a high-speed, medium-weight bomber developed by the United States and saw action in several theatres of the war. Some were used during the D-Day invasion, the 65th anniversary of which is being marked this weekend.

The plane's nickname was derived from its short wingspan, which appeared to give it no visible means of support.

Many Marauders were part of a lend-lease program that helped arm Russia against the Nazi invasion. In a massive airlift called the Northwest Staging Route, about 7,000 warplanes were flown from Great Falls, Mont., to Fairbanks, Alaska, en route to Siberia. There were stops in Canada to refuel.

On Jan. 16, 1942, six of them left Great Falls. Three got lost in Yukon airspace and crashed after running out of fuel, said Bob Cameron, a Yukon aviation buff in Whitehorse. The fourth crash-landed on the ice of Watson Lake and another crashed on takeoff as it set out again. Only one made it to Fairbanks.

"That was an unlucky group of airplanes," he said.

Enter history buffs Brian and John Jasman, who found one of the planes last year with a sonar device. They had been combing through declassified military records and accident reports for 20 years. This spring, the brothers floated the nose cone of the derelict up to the surface and hauled it to shore.

"It was kind of amazing," said Brian Jasman from his campsite beside Watson Lake, just north of the British Columbia-Yukon boundary.

"It should be in a museum where everybody could see it. Sitting in 70 feet of water, it's just going to rot to nothing."

The Jasmans were starting their search for the rest of the plane when the territorial government stepped in.

"The government of the Yukon owns that plane," said Hunston.

The Northwest Staging Route helped establish some of the territory's modern-day airports, he said. The many warplane wrecks it left behind are important artifacts of Yukon history – and potential tourist attractions.

Hunston suspects the Jasmans' motives.

"We're well aware of the antique warbird market out there. There's a lot of money to be made and even parts can be hot commodities."

Although thousands of Marauders were built, there are only a handful in museums and even fewer in flying condition.

Hunston fears the Watson Lake Marauder could wind up in an American private collection, much like a P-39 Cobra fighter that was allowed to leave the Yukon and ended up in a private museum in Oregon.

"We, too, want our warbird heritage preserved and exhibited in museums so that everybody benefits."

Hunston said the brothers have been served notice to appear in court on charges under the territory's heritage legislation. They could face a fine of up to $50,000.

But the Jasmans claim finders, keepers. Brian says the U.S. air force has relinquished any claim on the wreck. He also points out that the plane's location underwater places it under federal, not territorial, legislation.

"We're going to stick it out and let the lawyer deal with it and see what happens. Legally, they can't take it."

So, for now, the Marauder sits atop a trailer alongside the Watson Lake airport where it attempted to land 67 years ago.

There are dozens of relics like it along the old flight route. Just this week, a pair of unexploded 227-kilogram bombs were found near the airport.

The Marauder isn't even the only wreck in Watson Lake. Cameron said an old Lancaster bomber is visible from the surface.

The town's airport was a maintenance depot during the war and used for testing in the years afterward.

"There have been quite a few accidents in Watson Lake," Cameron said.

James,

In the end I guess we are all speculating on whats still there other than admiring a marvelous cockpit section that has surfaced.

Thanks for disclosing what you do know or understand, I'm not in a position to dis-agree as my information is certainly 3rd hand compared to yours, and I have'nt personally seen any photos that are supposedly proving otherwise?

I would certainly agree there would seem little reason for your email sender not to disclose the entire airframe if it existed, if they are willing to bring you into their confidence regarding the intended cockpit recovery and be sending you photos of it prior to the recovery?

I was aware of the "widow maker" and (I think) the "flying coffin"??? nick names, I wasnt aware of the "flying prostitute" as another nickname for the type? and hence assumed it to be nose art, but I still suspect this is # 40-1453?

I would agree the newspaper quotes, or even Blakes flicker comments dont neccessarily prove what else remains under the water?

However I do suspect there will now be some serious investigations undertaken of the site, and the history of the cockpit, regardless of the disputed ownership, including follow-ups with the diver named in Blake's comments?

I am also pleased to hear there has been serious consideration of recovering the PNG wreck 40-1426, the type is too rare not to attempt to restore that wreck with one of the surplus cockpit sections, and preserve it long term, its one advantage so far is perhaps its too remote for local scrapping efforts?

regards

Mark Pilkington