Warbird Information Exchange

Folks:

Anyone know alot about the P-66? Is it similar to the BT-13. I saw a BT-13 not to long ago, and a picture of a P-66 and they look similar.

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Is this what you're referring to?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-66_Vanguard

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Cheers

Daz

I always wanted to make one out of a BT, all it takes is money

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I compared my January 1942 copy of the Flight Manual with the data given by Wiki and there are differences, but mostly minor. Reading carefully it does seem as though the P-66 was damned by faint praise with expressions like 'reasonably well' appearing(!) It looks as if it suffered from stability problems, making instrument flying difficult.
Maximum permitted dive speed was 425mph and at military power it would climb to 12,600 feet in 5 minutes. The clean stall was 94mph and all down at 88mph. The range was given as 690 miles but with extra tankage this could be increased to 1,000 miles. What a pity that none survived to go to a museum.

According to Wikipedia, the Chinese A.F. hid some in a cave in Chungking for use in their Revolutionary War in 1947.

I think the hard part would be the landing gear. You might be able to find drawings in the Smithsonian.

_________________
"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" R.R.

Welcome to the USSA! One Nanny State Under the Messiah, Indivisible with Tyranny, Higher Taxes, Socialism, Radical Environmentalism and a Loss of Income for all. Boy I'm proud to be a part of the USSA, what can I do to raise taxes, oh boy oh boy!

hummm---I wonder if they are still there...

BT parts are cheap, and available in abundance. I think it would take more time than money.

With that said, what would you do about the landing gear? T-6 gear? modified light plane gear?

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"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" R.R.

Welcome to the USSA! One Nanny State Under the Messiah, Indivisible with Tyranny, Higher Taxes, Socialism, Radical Environmentalism and a Loss of Income for all. Boy I'm proud to be a part of the USSA, what can I do to raise taxes, oh boy oh boy!

BUT you have to have the money! Yes, modified T-6 gear I think would work, just make the legs longer.

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I don't think it would work w/ parts as is. The T-6 castings are thicker than the BT-13's wing. The parts are out there to do it, but I think if T-6 castings are used they would have to be made thinner.

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"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" R.R.

Welcome to the USSA! One Nanny State Under the Messiah, Indivisible with Tyranny, Higher Taxes, Socialism, Radical Environmentalism and a Loss of Income for all. Boy I'm proud to be a part of the USSA, what can I do to raise taxes, oh boy oh boy!

I thought there was one surviving at least into the early warbird movement in the early 1960s in CA or the Northwest.

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There's been rumors of their exsistance for more than 30 years, but no evidence. Supposedly two damaged airframes were shipped back from India for rebuild, but were disposed of instead. According to an Air Classics(?) article, they appeared in an aircraft salvage yard in North Dakota and then dissapeared again a few years later. As the story went, there was a person in southern California that ended up with the parts and was rebuilding one a/c from what he recovered. Allegedly, the work was going on in a hangar in SoCal at the time, but there hasn't been a sighting or report since that one article. Dan Ford was friends with one of the original Vultee tech reps that went with the -66's to India and from what he could determine, there was little probabilty that the airframes escaped scrapping and the sighting in SoCal was more likely a BT undergoing restoration.

As to commonality with the BT, from what I've read, by the time the -66's went into production, there was little if any in the structure. Cockpit furnishings, systems parts and so on, did have some commonality. Converting a BT to a P-66 would be a less than satifying effort. It would be easier to start from scratch and build one. The most complicated part would be having a couple of -66 specific extrusions pulled, but that can be done.

The wrecks were supposedly in a barn outside Minot, and the guy that had them is dead.
The wing, center section and tail cone are very similar and could be modified. I still think T-6 gear would work. Would need new tubualar and engine mount. It wouldn't be exact, but would look good. Anything can be make if you rub enough money on it!
p.s. And flush rivet the whole thing.

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Dennis Sanders had seriously considered making a P-66 from BT parts. I think he even picked up a BT project but never got started cutting metal. If anyone visits Ione they might want to ask him about it.

Stoney: I've heard that rumor as well as several variations of it, for probably 15-20 years now. I've leared to not get too excited about chasing a project or parts without having evidence of their exsistance. All of the stories about P-66 stuff being located somewhere has been 5th or 6th hand hearsay. No pictures and no 1st hand sightings of the items nor any names or exact locations ever turn up. That's not to say the stuff isn't out there, but being there hasn't been any verification of the airframes getting out of the Downy plant, I don't put too much faith in the reports.

As to converting a BT, you could get away with it, but remember that you are simulating an a/c that has nearly 3x the horsepower, almost 50% higher gross weight and a Vne of nearly 2x the BT. By the time you would have done the necessary engineering and redesign work to make it pretty close, you could have just built a -66 from scratch.

Usually that's just opinion, and you never know until you've actually done it.

_________________
"No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" R.R.

Welcome to the USSA! One Nanny State Under the Messiah, Indivisible with Tyranny, Higher Taxes, Socialism, Radical Environmentalism and a Loss of Income for all. Boy I'm proud to be a part of the USSA, what can I do to raise taxes, oh boy oh boy!