material
Mon May 25, 2009 10:26 pm
Do not use 3003 for a structure item.2024-0 is the best.Some T material will form in a curve but not enough for the part in the picture.If you can heat treat the material first and then form the piece directly afterwards you can greatly reduce the amount of warping in the part.
Tue May 26, 2009 12:32 am
HTE:
So you are saying heat treating 2024 T-0 will soften it, I thought it didn't get any softer?
I did hear from a fellow in a machine shop that T-0 can get is soft as a putty, but that he had to keep it refrigerated to aviod age hardening.
So you are saying heat treating 2024 T-0 will soften it, I thought it didn't get any softer?
I did hear from a fellow in a machine shop that T-0 can get is soft as a putty, but that he had to keep it refrigerated to aviod age hardening.
2024-0
Tue May 26, 2009 5:49 am
A2C,we need to get the term right.2024-0 is one material and 2024-T is the hardened version of the first one.There are various versions of T material.If you heat treat T material it takes it to whats called a "W" state which allows you to form it and in 24 hours will harden to T-4 all on its own.Confused yet?If you need some help with making something send me a PM and I will give you contact info. Regards Hang.
Tue May 26, 2009 2:12 pm
Here's a couple shots of a random exercise I did with 3003-H4 material .050" thick. About a 2" radius.
Re: 2024-0
Wed May 27, 2009 8:12 pm
hang the expense wrote:A2C,we need to get the term right.2024-0 is one material and 2024-T is the hardened version of the first one.There are various versions of T material.If you heat treat T material it takes it to whats called a "W" state which allows you to form it and in 24 hours will harden to T-4 all on its own.Confused yet?If you need some help with making something send me a PM and I will give you contact info. Regards Hang.
Hang, what would I do if I wanted to make this same piece from 2024?
Wed May 27, 2009 10:24 pm
You could form it from 2024-0 and then have it heat treated.
The most important thing to remember when making parts for aircraft is what it was originally. The engineers chose a material and hardness for several reasons. This research can be much harder and time consuming than the fabrication itself. It is common for formers to be formed in 2024-o then heat treated to 2024-t4. Heat treating does weird things sometimes. because of that I always have heat treated parts returned frozen in dry ice. Which means the part is put in a oven,baked a specific way, quenched and frozen. The freezing hold the metal in a like "O" state. Even better than when I sent it as the forming work hardens it a bit. After removing from the ice , straighten as needed. If the spec requires T6 (which is common)it must be returned for artificial aging.
If you are real good at your hand forming or using a press with tooling. The flat metal can be heated,quenched, held cold ,formed and let up to room temp. That is the method HANG had mentioned. You save a step,but after you remove the metal from the freezer or ice you don't have much time. I don't count on much forming after 1 hour removed from the freezer.
You can learn quite a bit about alloys and hardness specs from the AIRCRAFT SPRUCE catalog, or the FAA A&P text books. As for material and hardness specs the aircraft structural manuals have allot of info for that airplanes structures.
I hope this helps a bit. I dont claim to know everything but have done quite a bit of this type forming for warbird restorations.
The most important thing to remember when making parts for aircraft is what it was originally. The engineers chose a material and hardness for several reasons. This research can be much harder and time consuming than the fabrication itself. It is common for formers to be formed in 2024-o then heat treated to 2024-t4. Heat treating does weird things sometimes. because of that I always have heat treated parts returned frozen in dry ice. Which means the part is put in a oven,baked a specific way, quenched and frozen. The freezing hold the metal in a like "O" state. Even better than when I sent it as the forming work hardens it a bit. After removing from the ice , straighten as needed. If the spec requires T6 (which is common)it must be returned for artificial aging.
If you are real good at your hand forming or using a press with tooling. The flat metal can be heated,quenched, held cold ,formed and let up to room temp. That is the method HANG had mentioned. You save a step,but after you remove the metal from the freezer or ice you don't have much time. I don't count on much forming after 1 hour removed from the freezer.
You can learn quite a bit about alloys and hardness specs from the AIRCRAFT SPRUCE catalog, or the FAA A&P text books. As for material and hardness specs the aircraft structural manuals have allot of info for that airplanes structures.
I hope this helps a bit. I dont claim to know everything but have done quite a bit of this type forming for warbird restorations.
Wed May 27, 2009 10:24 pm
Nice pictures Mr. Dennison.
Ally
Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:37 pm
For hammer forming it is best to use 2024 O.If you have T3 it can be annealed to O condition.As always after you form the part the process can be reversed by heat treating back to T3 condition.Hammerforming works well with our Spitfire frames.To see the process see here..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7rXV4tdwvo&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7rXV4tdwvo&feature=fvw