Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:02 pm
I deleted a number of posts. Calling anyone names isn't going to help, and can cause problems to both any efforts to address the situation and the running of the website.
Scott's presumably fed up with WIX; I don't think he'd want to bother contesting a legal challenge.
You have freedom of speech - but not to abuse people. Attack the issue, not the people.
Thank you.
Scott's presumably fed up with WIX; I don't think he'd want to bother contesting a legal challenge.
You have freedom of speech - but not to abuse people. Attack the issue, not the people.
Thank you.
Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:47 pm
I understand that the passenger flights will be allowed but the public is not being permitted to tour the aircraft.
As I find out more I will pass it on. I am hosting the Collings folks here later next month so I am greatly concerned about this.
As I find out more I will pass it on. I am hosting the Collings folks here later next month so I am greatly concerned about this.
Wed Apr 29, 2009 1:09 am
Wow, that is a very disappointing development if that is indeed what has happened.
Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:57 am
I wonder if it has anything to do w/ the EAA lobbying against the TSA's latest round of security measures... 
http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-04-23_tsa.asp
http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-04-23_tsa.asp
No retribution- testing profile
Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:17 am
This is not an attack against warbirds, yet. This is a 'test' profile to see what kind of public outrage comes back at them for widespread enforcement. EAA was a good one to pick as they travel around, but are fairly grounded in the total GA movement, not just Warbirds. So if this blows up in their face, they go back, regroup, and find other ways to mess with us.
I want everybody to remember that to describe the B-17, you can use words like 'bomber,' 'flying fortress,' 'capable of carrying thousands of pounds of explosives,' 'armed to the teeth,' and when terms like this get thrown into the public's eye in the right context, can be used against us. I hate to even think of PC bullsh** like this, but it might be time to start to referring to our objects of affection as 'deactivated war machines.' It's just a hunch, but if they are going after weapons, they might not just want guns.
I want everybody to remember that to describe the B-17, you can use words like 'bomber,' 'flying fortress,' 'capable of carrying thousands of pounds of explosives,' 'armed to the teeth,' and when terms like this get thrown into the public's eye in the right context, can be used against us. I hate to even think of PC bullsh** like this, but it might be time to start to referring to our objects of affection as 'deactivated war machines.' It's just a hunch, but if they are going after weapons, they might not just want guns.
Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:27 am
Here is a link to a local news outlet in Stockton. Looks like the article was posted recently. No mention of the TSA... 
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... 4/-1/RSS02
Hopefully the EAA will get in touch w/ the local news and make a stink (I hope)
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... 4/-1/RSS02
Hopefully the EAA will get in touch w/ the local news and make a stink (I hope)
Wed Apr 29, 2009 7:55 am
My apologies to whomever it was I called "chief," and for injecting politics into the thread - I am sorry.
Back to the topic at hand - I checked at work this morning and it turns out that it was not a security issue at all, but rather an issue between the airport and FBO and not having the proper permits in place for ground tours. All in all it was rather a non-event.
Zack
PS: This news comes from one of the pilots and our government affairs staff.
Back to the topic at hand - I checked at work this morning and it turns out that it was not a security issue at all, but rather an issue between the airport and FBO and not having the proper permits in place for ground tours. All in all it was rather a non-event.
Zack
PS: This news comes from one of the pilots and our government affairs staff.
Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:00 am
Zachary wrote:My apologies to whomever it was I called "chief," and for injecting politics into the thread - I am sorry.
Back to the topic at hand - I checked at work this morning and it turns out that it was not a security issue at all, but rather an issue between the airport and FBO and not having the proper permits in place for ground tours. All in all it was rather a non-event.
Zack
PS: This news comes from one of the pilots and our government affairs staff.
That is good to hear!
Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:32 am
Forgotten Field, good points. Thanks to the others for thoughtful input and news. Cheers.
FF - I don't think the TSA are after causing trouble with any one group - they 'need', however, to undertake a good deal of 'activity' to 'show' how vital they are; like a burglar, one deterred, they'll probably more onto easier pickings.
FF - I don't think the TSA are after causing trouble with any one group - they 'need', however, to undertake a good deal of 'activity' to 'show' how vital they are; like a burglar, one deterred, they'll probably more onto easier pickings.
Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:40 am
Back to the topic at hand - I checked at work this morning and it turns out that it was not a security issue at all, but rather an issue between the airport and FBO and not having the proper permits in place for ground tours. All in all it was rather a non-event.
Gee what a surprise. I was just about to post let's wait for the whole story becasue as a security issue it made no sense.
Man there are a bunch of people out here just waiting to jump on the least little bit of bad information to complain about the gubmint. The FiFi 'rumor' comment is just priceless, not to mention the pylon 7 thing. Get a grip will ya?
Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:13 am
JDK wrote:Forgotten Field, good points. Thanks to the others for thoughtful input and news. Cheers.
FF - I don't think the TSA are after causing trouble with any one group - they 'need', however, to undertake a good deal of 'activity' to 'show' how vital they are; like a burglar, one deterred, they'll probably more onto easier pickings.
To the who frequent the board who aren't actively involved with flying aircraft, I'd just like to point out that a if you're not actively involved in a local US airport, you probably insulated to the tensions apparent right now. You may notice that some of the most sensitive folks on this subject ARE guys who are active and are seeing things for real on the ground.
It's really disgusting how times have changed... I miss the stories of the old days where folks who dreamed of flying were being welcomed and given opportunities to work their way in rather than being treated like some wierdo who should mind his own business. Also, it's getting quite annoying when they'll won't even let pilots drive on the ramp to their own aircraft (like where I work). It's really quite odd. Some of this stuff makes no sense at all, like having to get an escort to drive one's own vehicle to one's own hangar to jump start another vehicle (even the escorts thought it was stupid)!
I'm glad this has turned out to be a non-issue, but there are plenty of real issues that ARE going on around the country. Let's stay vigilant.
Ryan
P.S. I apologize for my attempt at humor earlier in the thread...
Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:22 am
PinecastleAAF wrote:Back to the topic at hand - I checked at work this morning and it turns out that it was not a security issue at all, but rather an issue between the airport and FBO and not having the proper permits in place for ground tours. All in all it was rather a non-event.
Gee what a surprise. I was just about to post let's wait for the whole story becasue as a security issue it made no sense.
Man there are a bunch of people out here just waiting to jump on the least little bit of bad information to complain about the gubmint. The FiFi 'rumor' comment is just priceless, not to mention the pylon 7 thing. Get a grip will ya?
Well it did make a left turn at the statue.....
Lynn
Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:14 am
Ryan has the right point to the crux of this topic. The "gubmint" (Federal, State and Local) is tightening the screws on all things aviation...I know this for a fact...this pressure is making some people in aviation rather weird and is making aviation that much more difficult approach to folks on the edges and more mysterious to those on the outside. I am in a bit of a struggle with a local airport and maybe the TSA (who knows what those guys have going on) right now myself. It's just funky out there....
If roads and parking lots were run like airports....
If roads and parking lots were run like airports....
Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:26 am
Moderator Edit - by Ryan Keough
I posted this statement in the original post that started this and will also do so here... please note, the title to the post has also been edited to reflect the correct information as submitted to us by EAA.
EAA submitted a clarification to us whereby the issue was NOT with the TSA or DHS but was rather an issue between the airport and Fixed Base Operator. EAA voluntarily suspended ground tours to keep conflict to a minumum in this matter.
Though there are several troubling initiatives coming from the Dept. of Homeland Security and its TSA division that are compelling EAA and other aviation groups to work aggressively to protect our flight freedoms and privileges. This particular issue, however, has no connection with DHS, TSA, or any federal airport security mandate.
To retain the credibility of WIX and other organizations connected in an effort to show Congressional and other federal officials that our community has its facts straight and is focused on the right battles, I'd ask us to refrain from further perpetuation of the rumor. Let's fight the battles where we can make a difference...
The EAA “Salute to Veterans” B-17 tour will continue normal operations this weekend in Napa, Calif. More information on the entire tour is available at www.b17.org.
I posted this statement in the original post that started this and will also do so here... please note, the title to the post has also been edited to reflect the correct information as submitted to us by EAA.
EAA submitted a clarification to us whereby the issue was NOT with the TSA or DHS but was rather an issue between the airport and Fixed Base Operator. EAA voluntarily suspended ground tours to keep conflict to a minumum in this matter.
Though there are several troubling initiatives coming from the Dept. of Homeland Security and its TSA division that are compelling EAA and other aviation groups to work aggressively to protect our flight freedoms and privileges. This particular issue, however, has no connection with DHS, TSA, or any federal airport security mandate.
To retain the credibility of WIX and other organizations connected in an effort to show Congressional and other federal officials that our community has its facts straight and is focused on the right battles, I'd ask us to refrain from further perpetuation of the rumor. Let's fight the battles where we can make a difference...
The EAA “Salute to Veterans” B-17 tour will continue normal operations this weekend in Napa, Calif. More information on the entire tour is available at www.b17.org.
Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:31 pm
I have just confirmed what Ryan found out earlier as I just returned from the B-17 folks and the tour organizers here at Stockton.
Last night at the County Airport Advisory Committee the two stop organizers stood up and reported that TSA had shut them down. This was alarming to all of us hence my post above. I just learned that TSA had no part whatsoever in stopping operations here at Stockton. It was EAA doing so to try and protect the FBO from further action.
The FBO was protesting the imposition of a $500 fee plus a $1500 security deposit to obtain a permit to allow the EAA's B-17 to visit and they declined to continue the permit process.
Once again TSA had nothing to do with shutting down EAA's operations here at Stockton. I have also edited the title from what Ryan had changed to reflect the fact that TSA had nothing to do with this.
I apologize for any misunderstandings. I am greatly relieved that this is a local matter without any broader implications.
Last night at the County Airport Advisory Committee the two stop organizers stood up and reported that TSA had shut them down. This was alarming to all of us hence my post above. I just learned that TSA had no part whatsoever in stopping operations here at Stockton. It was EAA doing so to try and protect the FBO from further action.
The FBO was protesting the imposition of a $500 fee plus a $1500 security deposit to obtain a permit to allow the EAA's B-17 to visit and they declined to continue the permit process.
Once again TSA had nothing to do with shutting down EAA's operations here at Stockton. I have also edited the title from what Ryan had changed to reflect the fact that TSA had nothing to do with this.
I apologize for any misunderstandings. I am greatly relieved that this is a local matter without any broader implications.
Last edited by Taigh Ramey on Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.