Judy's P-40F Warhawk 3/2009

[Dan K]

Note that there are both short tailed and long tailed versions of both the P-40F and P-40L.

Nathan, if by "long tailed" version you mean the later models with the 26" fuselage extension, I don't know that I've ever heard/read of a short P-40L. Could you clarify?

[Bradburger]

Note that there are both short tailed and long tailed versions of both the P-40F and P-40L.

Nathan, if by "long tailed" version you mean the later models with the 26" fuselage extension, I don't know that I've ever heard/read of a short P-40L. Could you clarify?

As posted by Mark Pilkington on earlier on this thread.

The first 600 P40F's were probably identical to P40E's firewall back, however the P40F introduced a 26" fuselage stretch from the P40F-5-CU model onwards that is not matched at all in the P40E production design versions, and the remaining 600 aircraft therefore are probably closer to the later K, M and N which all implemented the long fuselage part way through production, than the earlier short fuselage E and L?

Very much looking forward to seeing Judy Pay's F fly hopefully in the next few days or so, and of course TFC's example later down the line.

Cheers

Paul

[Dan K]

Note that there are both short tailed and long tailed versions of both the P-40F and P-40L.

Nathan, if by "long tailed" version you mean the later models with the 26" fuselage extension, I don't know that I've ever heard/read of a short P-40L. Could you clarify?

As posted by Mark Pilkington on earlier on this thread.

The first 600 P40F's were probably identical to P40E's firewall back, however the P40F introduced a 26" fuselage stretch from the P40F-5-CU model onwards that is not matched at all in the P40E production design versions, and the remaining 600 aircraft therefore are probably closer to the later K, M and N which all implemented the long fuselage part way through production, than the earlier short fuselage E and L?

Paul

Ok, I must be very dense today or something, but I've honestly never encountered any solid evidence that supports the idea that a short-fuselage P-40L ever existed.

Although I've found a written reference or two which allude to the P-40L-1 having a short fuselage, the few pics I've seen of that version show a long fuselage.

For examples, check out pages 78 and 80 of Warhawk Aces of the MTO:

http://books.google.com/books?id=r9bxGw ... 8#PPT81,M1

Any P-40 experts care to speak definitively on this? Photographic evidence would be appreciated.


Oh yeah... Lest I be accused of piracy: Judy Pay's F looks great!

[Bradburger]

Dan,

Not a case of you being dense, for whatever reason, you just missed it!

I don't have it to hand, but I'm pretty sure 'America's Hundred Thousand" by Francis H.Dean has pictures of short fuselage P-40F's in it.

Cheers

Paul

[Jack Cook]

Here's one of each!

Capt Al Johnson leads 1Lt Ray Morrisey shortly before both the KIA

[Dan K]

Dan,

Not a case of you being dense, for whatever reason, you just missed it!

I don't have it to hand, but I'm pretty sure 'America's Hundred Thousand" by Francis H.Dean has pictures of short fuselage P-40F's in it.

Cheers



Paul

(Now I know you guys are messin' with me.)

Paul,

Read my lips. I KNOW there are short fuselage F's. I don't believe there is such a beast as a short fuselage L.

L

L

I don't need a pic of a short fuselage F. I don't need a pic of a long fuselage F.

I'm looking for photographic proof of a short fuselage P-40L.

Any other pics will be interpreted as an act of war and dealt with accordingly.

[Nathan]

Only fifty P-40L-1's had the short-tailed version. These first fifty would be serial numbers 42-10430 thru 42-10479. Then from the P-40L-5 all subsequent L models had the longer tail.

HTH!

Although I've found a written reference or two which allude to the P-40L-1 having a short fuselage, the few pics I've seen of that version show a long fuselage.

Could have been a mistake on the authors part.

[Bradburger]

Dan,

Not a case of you being dense, for whatever reason, you just missed it!

I don't have it to hand, but I'm pretty sure 'America's Hundred Thousand" by Francis H.Dean has pictures of short fuselage P-40F's in it.

Cheers


Paul

(Now I know you guys are messin' with me.)

Paul,

Read my lips. I KNOW there are short fuselage F's. I don't believe there is such a beast as a short fuselage L.

L

L

I don't need a pic of a short fuselage F. I don't need a pic of a long fuselage F.

I'm looking for photographic proof of a short fuselage P-40L.

Any other pics will be interpreted as an act of war and dealt with accordingly.

Bloody L!

Apologies Dan.

Obviously it's me who's the dense one today so sorry for the confusion!

I too don't think I've seen any pictures of a short fuselage L, although I seem to recall seeing that the first block of them had a short fuselage in AHT. (Probably why I confused things).

And now Nathan has answered your question, all we need is for Jack to post a picture of one!

Cheers

Paul

[Dan K]

Dan,

Not a case of you being dense, for whatever reason, you just missed it!

I don't have it to hand, but I'm pretty sure 'America's Hundred Thousand" by Francis H.Dean has pictures of short fuselage P-40F's in it.

Cheers


Paul

(Now I know you guys are messin' with me.)




Paul,

Read my lips. I KNOW there are short fuselage F's. I don't believe there is such a beast as a short fuselage L.

L

L

I don't need a pic of a short fuselage F. I don't need a pic of a long fuselage F.

I'm looking for photographic proof of a short fuselage P-40L.

Any other pics will be interpreted as an act of war and dealt with accordingly.

Bloody L!

Apologies Dan.

Obviously it's me who's the dense one today so sorry for the confusion!

I too don't think I've seen any pictures of a short fuselage L, although I seem to recall seeing that the first block of them had a short fuselage in AHT. (Probably why I confused things).

And now Nathan has answered your question, all we need is for Jack to post a picture of one!

Cheers

Paul

No sweat, Paul; but it was beginning to feel like I was talking with Mrs. K for a moment there.

The only reason I'm questioning this is because there seems to be disagreement amongst the research out there. So who can come up with the definitive P-40L-1 pic. The search is on!

[Dan K]

To add to the confusion:

Two, beautiful profiles (not by me) showing P-40's within the range of L-1 serial numbers, and both painted with the long fuselage.






Profile source: http://www.balad.afcent.af.mil/art/inde ... 509&page=2

[Buz]

Gents

The short tailed P-40L-1's are a myth.......end of story. I have seen photos of P-40L-1CU aircraft and not one of these has a short fuselage, however photos are rare (so if you have others please post them).

Aircraft known to have Long fuselages are as follows (all have references for review)

42-10436 (page 70 and 74 of MTO aces, page 48 P-40's of the Med)
42-10440 (Page 16 of Checkertails)
42-10448 (page 33 of MTO aces)
42-10453 (page 78 of MTO aces)
41-10461 (page 39 of the Original p-40 in Action).
42-10476 (page 70 of MTO aces)

The following I have seen during my long years researching P-40 aircraft (its all I research and have been doing so for 12 years) but haven't been able to snaffle a copy of them, or I can't find the reference photo.

42-10430 with 33FG
42-10438 with 57FG
42-10439 with 99FS as A1*0
42-10447 with 325FG as 56

The nice thing about this is the numbers are spread throughout the 50 aircraft. We have the 7th aircraft, 11th, 19th, 24th, 32nd and 47th Aircraft of the batch (photographic proof). If the aircraft I can't find reference photos for are taken into account then it gives us additionally the 1st, 9th, 10th and 18th aircraft as well.

I know what the web pages on the P-40L state as well as all the publications on the P-40, however as shown we have photographic proof of over 10% of the batch (spread throughout the entire batch) having long fuselages, and if the other four I can't find the refs for are taken into account we have 10 of the batch of 50.........maybe a picture is worth a thousand words.........

Buz

[Dan K]

Thanks for that, Buz. Your name shall be added to the official ranks of "WIX Mythbusters" ... a rare honor indeed!

Now I can get a decent night's sleep again.

[Buz]

Dan

I aim to please.......

[JDK]

Thanks Buzz, good work.

Going to be at Echuca?

[Dan K]

But what of those who are used to quoting America's Hundred Thousand like Holy Scripture? Should we not be providing some type of counseling hotline?

Instead of counseling, I've decided to re-post this picture of my favorite Pearl Harbo(u)r survivor, Kate Beckinsale.


There, I feel better already.