Talking of ejection seats, B-58 Hustler + Vulcan

lestweforget · **Posted:** Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:17 pm

While reading the previous thread about the downward firing ejection seats in the B-52 (scary thought :shock:

) I remembered the B-58 had a capsule type arrangement that enclosed the seat, for high speed ejections. Was this ever used in anger succesfully?

I also recall the Avro Vulcan had ejection seats for the crew in the cockpit, but not the rear crew, who had to bail out conventionally through a hatch in the time honoured "WW2" fashion. I beleive a few fatalities resulted in this, with the pilot and co-pilot ejecting sucessfully. A sobering thought.

tom d. friedman · **Posted:** Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:37 pm

the clam shell capsule set up on the b-58 must have been a nightmare. i know of 1 survival of it's being used in an emergency. as to the f-111's survival package i know of 1 as well, but definetely not as exotic as the b-58..

lestweforget · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:53 am

Thanks for the replies. Great link, very informative.

Glyn · **Joined:** Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:23 am **Posts:** 321

lestweforget wrote:

I also recall the Avro Vulcan had ejection seats for the crew in the cockpit, but not the rear crew, who had to bail out conventionally through a hatch in the time honoured "WW2" fashion. I beleive a few fatalities resulted in this, with the pilot and co-pilot ejecting sucessfully. A sobering thought.

All the V Bombers had the same system of bang seats for the pilots only. I knew the man who did the escape trials for the back seaters on all three types. Mick Pearce was his name and at the time he was the leading man in numbers of parachute descents. He also did drops from a Canberra bomb bay including night descents into the sea on behalf of the SAS!

CH2Tdriver · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:59 am

I just happened to learn this when I caught a show recently called "Top Ten Greatest Bombers", or something like that. They started with the Swordfish and ended with the B-52. In between was the Vulcan and the 'expert' mentioned the ejection seat fact. He then mentioned that this design had a lot to do with the british class system. I'm not to sure about that. I imagine in any case most of a Vulcan's crew were officers anyway?

Pete

Glyn wrote:

lestweforget wrote:

I also recall the Avro Vulcan had ejection seats for the crew in the cockpit, but not the rear crew, who had to bail out conventionally through a hatch in the time honoured "WW2" fashion. I beleive a few fatalities resulted in this, with the pilot and co-pilot ejecting sucessfully. A sobering thought.

All the V Bombers had the same system of bang seats for the pilots only. I knew the man who did the escape trials for the back seaters on all three types. Mick Pearce was his name and at the time he was the leading man in numbers of parachute descents. He also did drops from a Canberra bomb bay including night descents into the sea on behalf of the SAS!

Glyn · **Joined:** Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:23 am **Posts:** 321

CH2Tdriver wrote:

I just happened to learn this when I caught a show recently called "Top Ten Greatest Bombers", or something like that. They started with the Swordfish and ended with the B-52. In between was the Vulcan and the 'expert' mentioned the ejection seat fact. He then mentioned that this design had a lot to do with the british class system. I'm not to sure about that. I imagine in any case most of a Vulcan's crew were officers anyway?

Pete

Ha ha! Obviously an American TV program then. No, I can not give you a definitive reason why the ejector seats were for the pilots only, but I can assure you it had nothing to do with the British 'class system' (which had all but died out by the end of the second world war). The back seaters were also commissioned officers.

dhfan · **Posted:** Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:24 pm

Martin-Baker designed a bang seat system for the Vulcan rear crew but it was never installed, possibly because they weren't expected to stay in service for 25 years or so.

The guy in the middle ejected first, then the other two seats tilted over and went through the same central hatch one after the other.

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:59 am

Glyn wrote:

CH2Tdriver wrote:

I just happened to learn this when I caught a show recently called "Top Ten Greatest Bombers", or something like that. They started with the Swordfish and ended with the B-52. In between was the Vulcan and the 'expert' mentioned the ejection seat fact. He then mentioned that this design had a lot to do with the british class system. I'm not to sure about that. I imagine in any case most of a Vulcan's crew were officers anyway?

Ha ha! Obviously an American TV program then. No, I can not give you a definitive reason why the ejector seats were for the pilots only, but I can assure you it had nothing to do with the British 'class system' (which had all but died out by the end of the second world war). The back seaters were also commissioned officers.

Not a credible explanation, IMHO. A cynical view might be that pilots were higher cost (training) and more valuable, and easier to get out of the Vulcan's cockpit structure, leading to a rough cut of value /rescue chances.

As for the British class system having died out by the end of W.W.II; you've got to be kidding. My years in Chelsea and Kensington showed all too much evidence of landed-gentry parasites. I could go on, but I shan't.

Regards,

PS: While looking at an interesting thread on Key, completely coincidentally a SNCO, RAF had this to say on (1960s) RAF 'class system'.

Quote:

When today we talk about CRM and managing a flight properly, that was unheard of in those days in the R.A.F.. Class distinction got in the way quite often and on another forum I have seen a term used by a Royal Air Force Officer who calls himself "Pontius Navigator", which is demeaning, degrading and everything else which gets peoples backs up.... the term is "Airman Tendencies" which I never heard in my time in the R.A.F., so it must be one of those "secret" terms used by officers.

I recall that the last totally demeaning term that I heard was at Seletar on a parade where the C.O. of Seletar (a Group Captain) addressed the assembled parade and all the assembled ladies who had come to watch on the occasion of the Royal Air Force's 50th Anniversary..... a joyous occasion....

As he welcomed the crowd, he said in a stentorian voice:

"Officers and their Ladies, Senior NCO's and their Wives, Airmen and their Women..... welcome to this 50th Anniversary..." etc. etc...

My then wife was disgusted and rightly so, it spelt the end of the relationship with the Royal Air Force..... The man was an idiot but that is the way that Officers used to carry on. Maybe they still do, I don't know. If you took them to task then, you were said to have a "chip on your shoulder"...what rot.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showpo ... stcount=22

Glyn · **Joined:** Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:23 am **Posts:** 321

[quote="JDK"]

As for the British class system having died out by the end of W.W.II; you've got to be kidding. My years in Chelsea and Kensington showed all too much evidence of landed-gentry parasites. I could go on, but I shan't.

Your experience is quite different to mine. I have lived here for 69 years (apart from the times I was serving overseas as a member of HM forces).
I was born and bred in Cornwall and I never encountered the 'class system' so beloved of American authors/peeved Australians/international socialists. Didn't meet it in the services either (no need with the rank structure in place) Haven't seen it in civilian life. I live in the real world too - but I keep seeing it while watching costume dramas on TV!

lestweforget · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:27 am

Almost scared to post a link now :shock:

but I found a very informative page on the B-58 seat and thought I would share it for those with an interest. The site is clean (no problems on my computer anyway!)
Here goes http://www.ejectionsite.com/b58capsule.htm

JDK · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:42 am

Glyn wrote:

American authors/peeved Australians/international socialists.

'Classy' response - hardly. Name calling hardly improves your argument. With 31 years all over the UK with all kinds of people, and an RP or 'Sarf Lundon' accent as I choose, I think my experience, and that of the various visitors to the UK I know (who remark on it) is as valid as yours. Probably better we just agree to differ.

lestweforget wrote:

Almost scared to post a link now

Don't be! It's all trivial.

The RAAF lost an F-111 off NZ, and the escape pod worked and is occasionally displayed at RAAF events - not sure if that includes RAAF ejection 'clubs'! :lol:

The Nav allegedly:

Quote:

he described the landing in the capsule to that of sitting in a wooden rocking chair and jumping off the roof of a one story building!

Glyn · **Joined:** Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:23 am **Posts:** 321

JDK wrote:

Glyn wrote:

American authors/peeved Australians/international socialists.

'Classy' response - hardly. Name calling hardly improves your argument. With 31 years all over the UK with all kinds of people, and an RP or 'Sarf Lundon' accent as I choose, I think my experience, and that of the various visitors to the UK I know (who remark on it) is as valid as yours. Probably better we just agree to differ.

Name calling, Mr K? Hardly. You seem quick to take umbrage at 'peeved Australians' but what about the Australians that are not peeved? After all, they are in the majority. I haven't met the class system and thus I said so. The few genuine Lords I have met have been classless. Those 'upwardly mobile' people who are inclined to put on airs and graces are simply foolish - and rarely of any real importance. As you say, we shall agree to differ. Life is too short to be exercised by such trivial things.

CH2Tdriver · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:41 pm

The show was called 'Greatest Ever - Bombers' and was on the Military Channel. It will be on again on April 26th:

http://military.discovery.com/tv-schedu ... 27.11507.5

It actually was a good show, with good up to date footage of warbirds and active military, with interviews. The show on the Greatest Fighters is just as good. Both are well worth watching.

Incidently the 'expert' on the Vulcan who mentioned the class system in regards to the seats was a Brit.

Pete

Glyn · **Joined:** Mon Feb 14, 2005 12:23 am **Posts:** 321

[quote="CH2Tdriver"]

Incidently the 'expert' on the Vulcan who mentioned the class system in regards to the seats was a Brit.

In that case we'll schedule him for extermination! Do you know his identity or qualifications by any chance?

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:37 pm

Quote:

as to the f-111's survival package

As Qs about the F-111 might be directed towards JCW has he has
a F-111 MO at Mt Home before going to pilot training.

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Talking of ejection seats, B-58 Hustler + Vulcan

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