B-29 Gunnery Training Equipment

[Second Air Force]

Here is another B-29 gun trainer Liberator that I forgot to post earlier. Larkins photo, taken at Kingman. Notice that the gunsight can still be seen in the waist blister. These sights and the computers for the CFC system were considered almost as precious as the Norden bombsight when the B-29 was first put into service, and by '46 they were just so much leftover junk. In fact, during the "Battle of Kansas" in the winter of '44, ambulances were employed to transport the CFC computers as they gave a better ride than standard trucks!

I've been doing some more research, and I have a feeling that some of the gunnery work with the modified B-24s may have been done at the B-29 Crew Transition Center at Alamogordo.

Scott

Last edited by Second Air Force on Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Second Air Force]

I found the reference material with the fuselage mock-ups, but it was a different photo than the one Taigh has on his website. Here is Taigh's picture that I thought could have been located at Clovis AAF:


And here is the one I dug up today, from the July, 1945 Boeing Magazine.

This photo is definitely from Alamogordo AAF, and is a different pair of Mock-Ups than in the first photo. Either Alamogordo had more than one pair of these, or they were from two different Combat Crew Training Centers. The construction appears identical except for the height of the scaffolding, and the terrain sure looks the same, so more evidence is needed. The gun crews must have been terrified by the fearsome attack of the Stearman!


From the same Boeing Magazine is this article and four photographs from Smoky Hill Army Air Field, Kansas.







How about getting some of those generators, Taigh




This last photo came as a bit of a surprise to me--I didn't know that Smoky Hill had an altitude chamber until I got this magazine. Until then I thought the AAF had to send crews to Lincoln AAF for altitude training.

Scott

Last edited by Second Air Force on Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

[Second Air Force]

I've been talking about the B-29B using the APG-15 tail turret radar, so here is a photo of the actual unit mounted on a Superfort.

The radar scanner is mounted inside the little ball just below the center 0.50 machine gun. The 315th Wing equipped their combat airplanes with a third gun mounted in the space left when the troublesome 20mm cannon had been removed. Some aircraft used a triple fifty set-up during the Korean Conflict as well.

The only other guns on the B-29B were to be two flexible 0.50s that were to fire out of the openings where the sighting blisters were normally installed. Here is a Boeing prototype mounting in a fuselage mock-up at the factory:

The mountings proposed for the combat aircraft had a compensating gunsight and elaborate recoil mount, but I can't confirm if the 315th Wing actually carried these scanner guns into combat. None of the records that I've read so far have referred to these guns. I do know that 2AF definitely trained the scanners to operate the waist guns, because Harvard AAF left us a couple of photos. This truck was used to train the scanner/gunners of the 501st Bomb Group.



The gun scoring camera is mounted alongside the sight in the box just above the receiver in this close-up:


Scott

Last edited by Second Air Force on Thu Oct 02, 2008 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Second Air Force]

Earlier I made reference to the P-63 gunnery target program. This is not to be confused with the "Pinball" armored RP-63/frangible bullet scheme that was experimented with late in the war. Second Air Force had been involved with P-47 training at several Nebraska fields in 1944, and these pilots were involved with mock attacks on B-24 and B-17 gunners for a period of time. Several nasty accidents occurred and it was decided to put together a P-63 unit manned by returned combat pilots and other highly qualified flyers. The P-63s were centrally based for a time, one unit being attached to Bruning Army Air Field just south of Fairmont. After a short time it was decided to have a detachment of a few airplanes assigned to the B-29 Phase Training Bases. The '63s would fly pursuit curves on B-29 formations in order to give the CFC gunners a chance to "shoot down" the bad guys with their gun cameras. The film would be taken to the Base Photo Lab immediately after landing, and the gun crews would be graded on the next day in most cases. The photos I have been able to find so far come from Harvard and Great Bend.


These first two were taken by Milt Johnson when he was assigned to Great Bend in late '45 and early '46.



You've seen this photo from Harvard before, but I'll put it up again anyway.

The Harvard Base History talks about several Sioux City AAF P-63s being transferred to the HAAF Sub-Depot for major maintenance.

I've got a few more 2AF Kingcobra pictures, but I need to get permission to post them first. Stay tuned.
Scott

[Second Air Force]

Taigh,

P.M. sent.

Scott

[Second Air Force]

If anyone in the WIX community has a lead on any B-29 turret or sighting system parts send me a P.M.--I have an idea for a project and I need to see if there is anything out there to work with. Any leads on B-24 turret equipment would also be appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott

[Second Air Force]

It's been quite a while since I posted anything on this thread, but I spent some time at the McCook Army Air Field last weekend and finally hiked out to the gunnery range. I earlier posted this aerial shot I took last year of the G.E. Poorman Turret Range--it's the grass "peninsula" near the fenceline that was the property line of the actual aircraft operations area.


We took numerous photos of the remains and here are a few of the better selections.

Here you are looking east/northeast along the turret line that consisted of at least six stations. Each station had a standard B-29 turret and separate sighting position.


This shot is looking the opposite direction from the first, and the hangars and cantonment area are way out on the horizon.


This is the turret mounting foundation. I have not yet found the blueprint of the McCook Poorman Range so I don't know if there were more than six of these originally.


This foundation is the sighting station mount that sits slightly behind and to the left of the associated turret.

I have a very poor photo of the Lowry AAF Poorman Range in operation that I'll try to clean up and post later.

Scott

[The Inspector]

Back in the late 70's I worked as an inspector on the AWACS final assembly in the 4-20 building @ Renton.
Facilities was going to come in and pave in a level spot in the floor on the West side to accomidate a work station (sanders, bandsaw, drill press, etc). I noticed small (3 inX5 in.), steel strips buried in the floor with sighting information on them saying things like 'fwd turret azmuth max' and degrees, I told my Supervisor that Boeing Historic may need to be called before these were lost forever. BH sent a team out who about turned handsprings and set to work having them removed for safe keeping.
They were, in fact alignment points for B-29 and later B-50 turrets during final assembly and BH knew nothing about them, thinking they had been tossed out during the days of the KC-135 and 707's, I believe they sent me a leather BOEING belt buckle as thanks-

[Second Air Force]

We have a similar situation in one of our original hangars at work, but these are marks for measuring control cables for various aircraft. Unfortunately they are simple lines scribed into the concrete with "DC-4 Aileron", "DC-6 Elevator", etc. scribed next to them. Eventually they will be jackhammered out or covered over, but I've got a record of them preserved for my own benefit.

I'm glad you got the historical folks to preserve the index plates!
Scott

[Second Air Force]

This is the only photo I have in my collection of the B-29/G.E. turret ground trainers in the field. My research has the photo being taken at Lowry AAF. There don't appear to be any sighting stations (although it is possible that they are off-picture to the left) which leads me to believe this range was employed as a training aid for armorers rather than aerial gunners. Also it is interesting that there is a four-gun turret in the foreground.


And here is another shot of the foundation remains of a turret mount at the McCook Poorman Range:

[the330thbg]

Wow.., these are amazing shots!!!!!!!11


Thanks a million..,

I love the B-24 mock-up of a B-29!

[Second Air Force]

While I was doing some research on the PBJ-1H gun-laying radar I rediscovered this short description of the AN/APG-5 and -8 fire control radars, with reference to the APG-15 used in the B-29B: http://www.riemarfamily.com/falcon%20in ... e%203.html The device mounted on the top turret gun barrel is the radar antenna, known as an "endfire antenna".

Scott

[noizeedave]

I believe i have one of the turrent controller units. The handles and associated cabling.

If anyone is interested.

[B29Gunner]

I believe i have one of the turrent controller units. The handles and associated cabling.

If anyone is interested.

I might be interested, could you e-mail me some pics?

[noizeedave]

Ill take some photos tomorrow and write down the PN for you. I know I even had some optical sights for B-29s, forgot which position, but the part number was that of a B-29 optical sight.