Warbird Information Exchange

Bill, yes I think maybe I am calling you out a little bit. I don't think that you have a bigoted bone in your body, but the premise that minorities need to see someone who looks like them in a particular position in order to see themselves in that position is, to me, an insult to their intelligence, even if an unintended one. It's also too easy of an answer.

Anyway what level of black celebrity would it take? I take it Michael Dorn was not good enough? Would any NBA or NFL first-string player be enough, or must it be an all-star? The topic just starts to leave a bad taste in my mouth. But hey, that's just me.

I think we need to look at genuine interest in the subject matter as the path to involvement rather than celebrity imitation.

August

http://www.eaa.org/youngeagles/

YE is still going strong. I arrange a day for flights every other year for the older students in the school at which I serve as principal. The flights are a reward for completing a special aviation unit I teach.

Young Eagles is fairly well-known in my area, but I happen to live 30 miles from Oshkosh. I am willing to bet that a majority of teachers and school administrators in other parts of the country are completely unfamiliar with the program.

Anyone can point a finger at a problem, but it takes a person of action to improve the situation. I would suggest that instead of looking at someone else to make Young Eagles more familiar in your community, why don't you make yourself the source of improvement. In my case, I now have younger students (and their parents) who will ask me if I plan to continue the "EAA plane ride class". Younger students are looking forward to the experience, and I get to share a little bit of my passion...definitely one of the perks of my job.

With the warbirds: "Let's keep 'em flying". With the kids: "Let's get even more of 'em flying".

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

I am an advisor for the Air Explorers chapter at my local airport. We get most of our membership from the 20 or so Young Eagles flights we give every month. This organization is operated by the Boy Scouts Of America and the program is only crippled by the lack of aviation sponsors. Start a chapter at your airport. The kids are allowed to fly, and we have two scholarships that are given at our (and another) local airport that pay for flight lessons. We don't give the checks out every year because we often don't get any applicants.

The kids are interested, but the adults at the airports need to start these programs so they feel welcome at the airport on a regular basis. Being nice to a kid for one day is nice for us, being nice and providing an entry way for them on a weekly or monthly basis in nice for them and their futures.

A kid rode up to my hanger on a tandem bike with his dad about twenty years ago, and I took him for a ride. He was about 8 at the time. They came back 6 months later and I took his dad for a ride. They are now both licensed pilots. The dad has a 1941 Interstate Cadet, and the kid has a Cessna 170. They now own two hangers at our airport, and the dad is the president of the corporation that owns the field. This all started with an airplane ride.

Young Eagles is the best program that I have ever been involved in.

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Fly low. Fly slow, Fly safe.

We're out here, and we're poor.

That said, I'm hoping a CAF membership is in my budget this year. I am a member of the AEHS.

Dan, believe or not, in my home town Young Eagles is pretty well covered. The last time I did it we only got one or two. Most kids here that have any interest have already ridden in a private plane or are too scared to go..There is a lot of other things to do here and our airport is not really kid friendly., it is mostly G5 friendly.

I think Y E was great. We may have made some future pilots, maybe more future voters, and the rides were fun and almost all were safe. But I think now the focus ought to perhaps target 14 to 18 year olds and try to get them to start flight lessons, not just go for a ride. I am not sure how to do this, perhaps a raffle that they enter when they start flight lessons and anyone who get their glider or sport or private in a year is eligible for a drawing for half the cost of the lessons.

The CAF is making a big marketing effort like at Sun N Fun. All well, but they won't even let minors ride in CAF planes, so it you are 16 it is kind of like I said, watching someone else eat donuts.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

I agree with you Dan and Eric.
Unfortunately I do not hold a pilot's license.
I AM a member of the Yankee Air Museum who just moved a vintage school to where their new campus will be located for educational seminars etc.
What I WILL do is contact both the EAA chapter near my home at 1D2 (Mettetal Airport in Canton, MI.) where I took my Young Eagles flight and see if I can help promote communication between the two in the future.

Regards,
Mark

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Once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards... for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo daVinci

You and me both, Mark. Certainly don't let that get in the way of a noble task.

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It was a good idea, it just didn't work.

I don't know if 38 counts as young anymore, but I'm kinda with Zane. I never finished my pilot's license because of money. Now I have a wife and son, and there's no possible way I could afford to fly. And the last thing I need is another expensive hobby (cars and motorcycles) that cost more than the previous two. But I love warbirds. Always have. It wasn't until Gary and the CAF though that I became any kind of active participant beyond going to airshows or reenacting. A couple of my friends love warbirds too. But I don't see them getting a license and pursuing it further either.

Now that I am a father, I wonder how much I should suggest aviation to my son as he gets older beyond my own involvements, particularly with all the crashes. Perhaps I will follow my parent's lead. I wanted to fly in the Air Force. I couldn't because of my vision. Then I wanted to be a bush pilot for a couple years. Took French in high school because I thought that would be handy in Canada. Took a few flying lessons in college. My parents always supported whatever I did or wanted to pursue. But in the end I made my own choices. I suppose one of my only regrets in life so far is not getting my pilot's license. But like someone else said, ultimately I could care less about modern GA. It would have to be a vintage plane at the very least. And ideally some kind of warbird. And no disrespect intended, but for ME an L-bird would not cut it. My best friend jokes with me all the time... "You know, they didn't stop making airplanes or end military history after 1945!"

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Sure, Charles Lindbergh flew the plane... but Tom Rutledge built the engine!

Visit Django Studios online or Facebook!

No, just less cool ones!!!!!!

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Once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards... for there you have been and there you will long to return. Leonardo daVinci

My experience with shows including AIRSHO in Midland seems to be a bit different than Bill's. I do between 15-20 shows a season, small, medium and large. I spend a bit of time talking with very young people and teenagers who seem to be genuinely interested in the funny looking black plane and others that are on the ramp. What percentage are these young people compared to adults I speak to at the plane. I would estimate about 35-40% so that sounds like a pretty good turn out considering. I'm not including an Aviation Expo I recently took part in at DFW airport which is specifically geared to school children. As I understand it, quite a few DFW area schools participate and they bring elementary and junior high kids with their teachers in tow. This was the first time I have been able to make it up from SAT during the week and it was amazing how many kids were there looking at planes on the ramp and visiting the great number of aviation related displays in the adjacent hangar. Many just oooed and ahhhhed but many asked very insightful questions of the plane owner/operators.

As far as shows go, if you make yourself available at your plane prior to and after the sterile ramp times, you will be delighted to talk with many kids with varying degrees of interest in aviation. And their parents are appreciative that one takes the time to explain things on a kid level.

Can we as individuals and within organizations do more to encourage young people to look at aviation....absolutely...and I applaud those involved in Young Eagles and in Aviation Scouts. Keep up the good work.

My point was not so much that some teenagers even at Midland are interested in the planes and talking to the pilots. It is that there are not enough of them out at the ariport or the airshow in the first place.
The CAF sent out a mailer or it was in the magazine in the last year about how our membership was aging and how we were losing those who got older and not fully replacing them with younger members.
Of course I could be wrong, as well as the CAF guys who see the membeship figures and are recruiting may be wrong. In that case we have no worries.
As for standing out by the plane talking to folks, well somebody has to break in that nice officers club. Of course I talk to the folks, and especially at a longer event like Oskosh when I am not at a briefing or getting some Bar B Q or enjoying the rest of the event.
As for as "the funny looking black plane", the kids were curious about it. They asked me which end was the front and how you know which way it was going. I told them, darned if I know.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Im not sure about other states but here in NSW Australia we have a group similar to the scouts called the Air League. They are a bit of an anachronism today but at the time (pre WWII) of formation the Government of the day saw a genuine need for potential airforce recruits. The organisation thrived. Growing up in a working class semi rural suburb (the perfect location to recruit kids) I always remember whilst walking to school the Boomerang and then Vampire sitting out front of Air League Hall (A Fibro Hut).
Everyone involved wore a uniform almost identical to what the airforce wore.
I chose not to join as I always thought it a bit weird to pretend to be in the airforce (all that marching, saluting and stuff). I just wanted to play with planes.
Instead at 10 I joined the aeromodellors club which was formed in 1946 . Up until last year the guy that formed it still ran the club.
I know The Air League is still having meetings there and part of the program is pilot training for the older ones. Im not sure how its funded now.
Its funny because the little 1940's Fibro hut has been surrounded by modern medium density dwellings and looks totally out of place. One day the pressure of development will pull it down.

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aaaaaaaa

The whole diversity issue bothers me.That sounds like quotas to me.The way it should be is if the person is interested in it let them persue it.Dont just drag them in because of color or sex.Get them in because of their interest in aviation.

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Hang The Expense

Well, those of you that have been on the "Spirit" or been around us know that we stress education and catering to the young. We frequently host displays and Educational Days for school districts around the country. Often we'll come in early to a venue and be open just for schools. It requires some advanced planning, but its what we do.

You dont think the Teddy Bear hanging out of the window is to attract adults, do you?

If you go to our website, and read some of our newsletters, you can see the extent we go to to attract kids. Maybe its our connection with Col. Halvorsen and his mission to help the Berlin kids, which he has continued throughout his life.

We also developed a Student Report Kit that we give out, and a Berlin Airlift Coloring Book for the younger kids.

We have a new idea coming out as an educational souvenir for the kids. Maybe this season, if we're lucky.

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Kevin Kearney
Vice President
Berlin Airlift Historical Foundation


C-54D "Spirit of Freedom" 43-17228
C-97 "Angel of Deliverance" 52-2718 (painted as YC-97A 45-59595)
C-54E/R5D-4 "Spirit of Freedom" 44-9144 BuNo 90414 (wfu April/2020)
http://www.spiritoffreedom.org

I think what is being missed here is that the kids of today need real exposure to the warbird men of yesterday so that the kids will grow to be warbird men tomorrow.

I don't care if you make em black, white, or purple. Kids need to be given a STRONG opportunity to fall in love with something and then shown they can do it. Warbirding is an expensive hobby, as anyone here can attest. So finding ways to introduce kids to them that they can afford is the important bit.

I tend to agree with bill that minorities can and should be given a little extra boost, but only I think ALL kids should be given a little boost. If you're a scout leader, have your kids do a display at school of their models. Maybe talk your High school history teachers to show Memphis Belle or the Battle of Britain and have an old WWII aircrewman give a little talk.

Teachers would eat this stuff up, and so would the kids, and how many of us do it? I've done a coupe of talks about the Army, and what we did in Panama, and in Korea and Somalia, and walked way with the feeling that those kids don't need books nearly as much as they need you and me, in their classrooms, doing what their teachers can't.

I hear an awful lot about the CAF working on airplanes. But I never hear abut the CAF working on kids. If we have a thousands B17's that can fly, what good are they going to be if no one cares and there are no pilots because we were too lazy, misguided, or involved in other things to catch them now, so they can take over for us when we can't do it any more?

Sorry if I insulted any body, but it seems pretty clear to me that warbirds are NOT like steam trains or old cars. It is a far more difficult interest to afford, for one thing. It's also far more difficult to get into, Ztex and a few others aside. We need to be actively recruiting kids. If we start young, natural selection should get rid of the ones we don't want around, and when we find keepers we can then make it even sweeter for them by letting them hop in an catch a ride.

But expecting air shows to be your prime recruiting tool is just silly. If they can't afford, and don't care, they aren't going to come. And right now too many kids don[t care and so don't see an airshow as worth spending the money on. Heck, for 25$ I can go buy another playstation game--I have several air combat simulators in my stack of games. All of them cost me the price of an airshow ticket. Why should I go out and stand in the heat and what somebody I don't know fly around up there when I can sit in air conditioning and interact with a fighter plane in a cool way all by myself?

Could the CAF consider an active recruiting arm? Heck just having a few more kids around to wash FIFI or Ol' 927 would be nice, if they're good kids

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."