Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:12 pm
Yes, we had to replace all of the push rod housings. It was a lot of work. However, since the cylinder spacing on a 4360 is not as close as on a 3350, I think changing them on our 4360 wasn't all that bad. I'd hate to think of doing it now on one of FiFi's engines.
I stated earlier that Aerodex was in Alabama. I was thinking about Air Mod which was in Alabama. Aerodex was at MIA airport.
I just remembered that I heard about Aerodex again shortly before I retired from my airline job.
Dade County, where MIA is located, was looking at every operator on the airport in an attempt to find who had used trichloroethylene (TCE) in the past because they found it in the airport's ground water. Aerodex was the one. They went bankrupt in 1976. Fortunately, our airline never used it at MIA
I stated earlier that Aerodex was in Alabama. I was thinking about Air Mod which was in Alabama. Aerodex was at MIA airport.
I just remembered that I heard about Aerodex again shortly before I retired from my airline job.
Dade County, where MIA is located, was looking at every operator on the airport in an attempt to find who had used trichloroethylene (TCE) in the past because they found it in the airport's ground water. Aerodex was the one. They went bankrupt in 1976. Fortunately, our airline never used it at MIA
Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:26 pm
Yeah I'm surprised that it seems like any of the people that have worked at any of the overhaul places never ever write about it on sites like this.
Where are they all?
Where are they all?
Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:26 pm
Most of the Air Force overhaul guys I knew were old when I was a 20 year old mechanic/crew chief/flight engineer. I guess they may have "gone west" by now. Also, none that I knew were "excited or loved" aviation. It was just a job to them. They just worked 8 to 5, and bragged about what they were going to do with their high wages and overtime pay.
I never met any of the Aerodex or contract guys. Maybe that was a good thing.
I sincerely enjoyed the time I had on C-124's. Sure it was a lot of long hours, hard work and time away from the family. But, I always wanted to be in aviation and still am. It's been 52 years and as long as I stay in shape and healthy, I'll keep doing it.
I never met any of the Aerodex or contract guys. Maybe that was a good thing.
I sincerely enjoyed the time I had on C-124's. Sure it was a lot of long hours, hard work and time away from the family. But, I always wanted to be in aviation and still am. It's been 52 years and as long as I stay in shape and healthy, I'll keep doing it.
Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:22 pm
Yeah not just the outfits that did military contract work or the military shops though I suppose they were the last of the big time Radial overhaulers, into the mid 70's I think. But some years before that there where lots of airline overhaul shops I would suppose. Also alot of the small places got thier start in the airlline recip heyday, like Garys favorite
joint in Everett wa.
Also I guess most of the folks that have worked in those places wouldn't have much exciting to say unless they did the first starts and running tests. The rest is pretty boring and tedious work, well to some anyway.
Daves latest deal on wix with the pictures is kinda nice. Gosh it was a pleasure to see the 2800 story in the Aviation History magazine at the magazine stand. There just isn't much on aircraft engines in war bird type magazines etc.
joint in Everett wa.
Also I guess most of the folks that have worked in those places wouldn't have much exciting to say unless they did the first starts and running tests. The rest is pretty boring and tedious work, well to some anyway.
Daves latest deal on wix with the pictures is kinda nice. Gosh it was a pleasure to see the 2800 story in the Aviation History magazine at the magazine stand. There just isn't much on aircraft engines in war bird type magazines etc.
Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:19 pm
I had forgotten about the airline radial engine overhaul shops. Thanks for the reminder. When I arrived at Tulsa , there were some remaining recip engine test cells that had been used for storage for the past 20 years. A lot of the AA old timers often talked about working in the "cylinder shop" "bearing shop" and other recip engine related areas.
One of my responsibilites at Tulsa was enviromental issues. One day our facilities people found an underground 5,000 gallon tank nearly full of some unknown oil. They were getting ready to hire a waste disposal company to dispose of the oil so the tank could be removed.
Being an old inquisitive recip engine guy, I took a sample of the oil to our Engineering Lab where it was found to be as I expected, brand new oil for the 3350 engine test cell. The lab said it passed all of the tests and we gave it to the A&P school across the airport for their use. I was surprised the oil was still good.
One of my responsibilites at Tulsa was enviromental issues. One day our facilities people found an underground 5,000 gallon tank nearly full of some unknown oil. They were getting ready to hire a waste disposal company to dispose of the oil so the tank could be removed.
Being an old inquisitive recip engine guy, I took a sample of the oil to our Engineering Lab where it was found to be as I expected, brand new oil for the 3350 engine test cell. The lab said it passed all of the tests and we gave it to the A&P school across the airport for their use. I was surprised the oil was still good.
Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:37 pm
One of my FE instructors who flew KC-97s up to 1978, told me about some poor engine overhauls out of a shop in MIA. It must of been AERODEX.
Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:04 pm
Wow what a find. That would be like a gold mine nowadays. The oil tank.
The production line type of overhaul work made that job not so glamerous. Kinda like in the factory, not much knowledge about mechanics or engines was necessary. I wonder why there aren't people that work in the few remaining overhaul shops writting in these forums?
Gosh ya'd think they would want to try to drum up more business by writting here.
So who started Aerodex?
And what happened to all thier stuff when the closed up? For that matter any similar shops on the verge of closing in this economy?
The production line type of overhaul work made that job not so glamerous. Kinda like in the factory, not much knowledge about mechanics or engines was necessary. I wonder why there aren't people that work in the few remaining overhaul shops writting in these forums?
Gosh ya'd think they would want to try to drum up more business by writting here.
So who started Aerodex?
And what happened to all thier stuff when the closed up? For that matter any similar shops on the verge of closing in this economy?
Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:27 am
Based on my recent experience, and trying to get engines rebuilt for the B-29 and B-24 there are very few shops out there doing it. They appear to be backed up with work and don't need any more business.
I guess all of their equipment was scrapped because the new jet engines were the way to go.
As far as AERODEX, I do not know who started it. I believe a guy named Crawford?, or something like that, was in charge back when they were in a court case involving bad engine parts for the Navy.
I guess all of their equipment was scrapped because the new jet engines were the way to go.
As far as AERODEX, I do not know who started it. I believe a guy named Crawford?, or something like that, was in charge back when they were in a court case involving bad engine parts for the Navy.
Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:38 pm
Where is all the work comming from? All US?
Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:48 pm
You would be surprised how many round engines are still in commercial service. You've got the DC-6 and DC-7 tankers, the PV-2 tankers, the DC-3s (almost a hundred of them still in service with 1830s), the Convair 240/340/440's (about 2 dozen of them), the Trackers and AgCats that are still out there with radials, and the several hundred warbirds. In all, you've got a fleet of well over 500 aircraft and well over 1000 engines that are active. Most of these shops have less than 10 employees (in fact, one of the leading ones down here in Texas is more-or-less a one man operation), so the volume of engines they can handle is very low. Add to that, a complete overhaul of an engine can take up to a year to complete, and you quickly swamp the available resources.
Sadly though, there's not enough remaining knowledge of these engines to be able to train and expand the base of shops to overhaul them and the shops that do overhaul them are having serious issues with getting reliable, skilled workers to perform the work (see the A&P thread of not to long ago for more on that).
Sadly though, there's not enough remaining knowledge of these engines to be able to train and expand the base of shops to overhaul them and the shops that do overhaul them are having serious issues with getting reliable, skilled workers to perform the work (see the A&P thread of not to long ago for more on that).
Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:59 pm
Chief wrote:Yes, we had to replace all of the push rod housings. It was a lot of work. However, since the cylinder spacing on a 4360 is not as close as on a 3350, I think changing them on our 4360 wasn't all that bad. I'd hate to think of doing it now on one of FiFi's engines.
Try it on an R-2000! Oversized Cylinders on an R-1830 leaves no room to spare for even average sized hands.
Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:06 pm
You are right about the 1830. For example, changing the exhaust pushrod housing on #7 cylinder requires removing the oil sump. There are other similiar "tricks" I've learned over time. I carry a "cheat sheet" of these type things in my flight bag.
Our B-29/B-24 crew chief before Gary, Rodney Jackson, was the most knowledgeable round engine guy I ever met. He recognized the need for starting more overhaul shops and said he always dreamed of starting one up himself. He said getting the machine tools and finding a good local metal plating facility were the two big obstacles. (Environmental folks don't like metal plating shops.) Unfortunately he passed away on the job about four years ago without seeing his dream come true.
Our B-29/B-24 crew chief before Gary, Rodney Jackson, was the most knowledgeable round engine guy I ever met. He recognized the need for starting more overhaul shops and said he always dreamed of starting one up himself. He said getting the machine tools and finding a good local metal plating facility were the two big obstacles. (Environmental folks don't like metal plating shops.) Unfortunately he passed away on the job about four years ago without seeing his dream come true.
Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:03 am
Yeah lots of tools needed. I suppose lots of headaches as well.
Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:39 am
Chief or Airlift48 what do you guys know about this.
4360-59B and Hamilton Standard 34G60 caused a limit of 1,250 to 1,650 and 2,100 to 2,650 rpm range for continuous operation on ground, and in flight 2,100 and 2,350 rpm.
So if the prop is lightened does that raise those?
4360-59B and Hamilton Standard 34G60 caused a limit of 1,250 to 1,650 and 2,100 to 2,650 rpm range for continuous operation on ground, and in flight 2,100 and 2,350 rpm.
So if the prop is lightened does that raise those?
Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:36 pm
You would have to get a mechanical engineer involved. Lightening the prop would certainly change the harmonics of the setup, but where the vibrations happen would have to be determined by extensive testing. I'm not sure that's something that can be guessed.
Last edited by Airlift48 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.