Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:59 am
bdk wrote:Are you sure that the Spitfire was designed for a water cooled engine? Those radiators seem to be scabbed on as such an afterthought! No wonder you don't see many Spitfires racing at Reno, might as well have added some permanently extended speed brakes...
The previous page to the Meredith Effect link I posted earlier is an interesting insight to the principle used by the Spitfire, Mustang and 109 with their radiators. It's simple, because I think I understood it.
http://contrails.free.fr/engine_aerodyn_radia_en.php
Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:16 am
bentwingbomber wrote:Jim Beasley wrote:We reject the Kings English (and that spelling???) although Rich and Fred have invented many new curse words
I have learnt many new words on this trip so far
Flashlight
wrench
cotter pin
and something about your son and the beach.
All very strange to me,but when in rome.....
Everyone is really amazed with the Spitfire not at least Rich,who has to keep walking away to compose himself after i have gone through some more strange english systems with him.
We are making great progress and having a great time.
Hope to make some noise later today....
Regards to all
Fred
Fred,
at least we use names with some punch behind them for airpraft parts,
We call it a Cowling, you call it a Bonnet, to us, a Bonnet is a lacy ladies hat.
You call it a Wicket, We call it a baseball bat,
You call it a spanner, we call it a wrench,
You call it a adjustable spanner, we call it a cresent wrench, or a mexican socket set.
You call it a torch, we call it a flashlight, a torch is what we want to put to the Brits for some of the names they have come with..............
Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:22 am
Don't faucet, just tap.
Don't sell the trike shop, Orville. Think your widgets are whatchamacallems there.
Matt Gunsch wrote:You call it a Wicket, We call it a baseball bat,
Don't sell the trike shop, Orville. Think your widgets are whatchamacallems there.
Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:32 pm
True enough, they perhaps balanced the drag they created, but only the Mustang made any consideration for the boundary layer effects. I understand that the Tempest's system was unusually efficient as well. Don't have the data at hand unfortunately, but I have seen it. There is a distinct difference between design theories and actual results as one could imagine.JDK wrote:The previous page to the Meredith Effect link I posted earlier is an interesting insight to the principle used by the Spitfire, Mustang and 109 with their radiators. It's simple, because I think I understood it.
Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:59 pm
well we have sort of gotten the prop on. Just need to find an unfindeable prop tool and we're good to go
Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:20 am
[quote="Jim Beasley"]well we have sort of gotten the prop on. Just need to find an unfindeable prop tool and we're good to go quote]
Jim,it will be in the last place that you look which was the first place you looked.Then someone will say 'oh,is what you were looking for? I moved it from there.(and will probably be a female......!)
Jim,it will be in the last place that you look which was the first place you looked.Then someone will say 'oh,is what you were looking for? I moved it from there.(and will probably be a female......!)
Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:36 pm
ALAN.L wrote:
Jim,it will be in the last place that you look
*in my best George Carlin voice*
Well of course it will be the last place you look, why would you continue to look once you've found it!
Rich
Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:51 pm
Parts of this thread are TFFW.
Many thanks for being courageous enough to post the pictures and descriptions of the work you are doing putting this Spitfire back together again.
Another thread I learned things from
(and not just the language differences).
Many thanks for being courageous enough to post the pictures and descriptions of the work you are doing putting this Spitfire back together again.
Another thread I learned things from
(and not just the language differences).
Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:06 pm
It runs!
More to follow.
Rich
More to follow.
Rich
Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:18 pm
Griffon Growl- 1st engine run.
Rich
Rich
Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:23 pm
After the gear swings and assembly we lower the Spit.
Top off fluids.
Ready for roll out- The 1st movement since it landed here in the colonies.
Ready to run.
Rich
Top off fluids.
Ready for roll out- The 1st movement since it landed here in the colonies.
Ready to run.
Rich
it's alive
Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:27 pm
well today was a productive day in the truest Monty Python Holy Grail sense. Our trek for the unfindeable prop tool took us to sunny Milville NJ and our friends Tom Duffy and Terry Rush (they have the best warbird collection in the northeast and we're posers compared to them) of course had what we needed. Thanks guys!
Here's Fred, Terry Rush and Fred's old Thunderbolt "No Guts No Glory". That's "Marine's Dream" in the background
And sure enough Tom and Terry had the mysterious and missing prop tool. After Rich did a bit of grinding we got the prop on
so now it's off the jacks and out the door. First time on colonial soil for this bird. Fred don't worry photos always add 10 pounds (10 stone in this pic)
and now ready to run
The pictures don't do the flames justice. Even at 1200rpm it's like 12 flamethrowers. Compared to a Merlin this Griffon is frightening
Success. Now to fill the systems & double check the fasteners
Here's Fred, Terry Rush and Fred's old Thunderbolt "No Guts No Glory". That's "Marine's Dream" in the background
And sure enough Tom and Terry had the mysterious and missing prop tool. After Rich did a bit of grinding we got the prop on
so now it's off the jacks and out the door. First time on colonial soil for this bird. Fred don't worry photos always add 10 pounds (10 stone in this pic)
and now ready to run
The pictures don't do the flames justice. Even at 1200rpm it's like 12 flamethrowers. Compared to a Merlin this Griffon is frightening
Success. Now to fill the systems & double check the fasteners
Last edited by Jim Beasley on Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:29 pm
51fixer wrote:Griffon Growl- 1st engine run.
Rich
Great to see.
I'm sure that threw off the guys to not have to worry about all those H&S considerations for the engine run.
BTW, how many noise complaints did you guys get for making beautiful noise after sunset?
Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:40 pm
CAPFlyer wrote:
Great to see.
I'm sure that threw off the guys to not have to worry about all those H&S considerations for the engine run.
BTW, how many noise complaints did you guys get for making beautiful noise after sunset?
It would have run much sooner if we had a H & S prop to install. The hub and blades hadn't been run since O/H. The prop, like other things on this beast, are a bit different and a bit complicated.
We haven't had any feed back on noise issues. This run wasn't at much power. To run any power on this you have to tie down the tail.
The Griffon has a much deeper growl than the poppin higher noise of a Merlin. I'd say the Griffon wasn't much of a noise maker and it was pretty cold so we ran it in front of the hangar.
Rich
Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:59 pm
Good stuff Fred (& Co!). Does it work better further west?
Sure, but your original comment was about draggy 'barn doors' - as we've seen, there's a lot more too it than that, and the Spitfire's radiator system is closer to (although not as advanced as) the Mustang's than most people realise.
The Messerschmitt 109 had a variable intake lip as well, which is also something most people don't realise, with how much useful advantage I don't know. IIRC, the Typhoon & Tempest's radiator can't be that 'clever' as it's stuck in a huge beard at the front - maybe you're thinking of the oil coolers? The Mosquito's wing radiator, like the Firefly IV is a neat instillation, a similar version also trialled on a 'beardless' inline-engine Tempest.
Cheers,
bdk wrote:True enough, they perhaps balanced the drag they created, but only the Mustang made any consideration for the boundary layer effects. I understand that the Tempest's system was unusually efficient as well. Don't have the data at hand unfortunately, but I have seen it. There is a distinct difference between design theories and actual results as one could imagine.JDK wrote:The previous page to the Meredith Effect link I posted earlier is an interesting insight to the principle used by the Spitfire, Mustang and 109 with their radiators. It's simple, because I think I understood it.
Sure, but your original comment was about draggy 'barn doors' - as we've seen, there's a lot more too it than that, and the Spitfire's radiator system is closer to (although not as advanced as) the Mustang's than most people realise.
The Messerschmitt 109 had a variable intake lip as well, which is also something most people don't realise, with how much useful advantage I don't know. IIRC, the Typhoon & Tempest's radiator can't be that 'clever' as it's stuck in a huge beard at the front - maybe you're thinking of the oil coolers? The Mosquito's wing radiator, like the Firefly IV is a neat instillation, a similar version also trialled on a 'beardless' inline-engine Tempest.
Cheers,