Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:01 am
This:
(NB: Dream on Jim, bigger than any of those funny moustangs and sputfire thingys... It took a real Italian man to get the world speed record with it.
)
Went in this;
And was cooled by this;
Note the radiators even on the float (sorry, 'pontoon') struts...
One of the coolest machines I've ever seen. Can you imagine what it would've been like to see in action?
PS: Back to the S6B. O'course the Brits forget to mention they wouldn't delay the last Schneider Trophy race until anyone else (like the Americans, French or Italians) was ready, so they had a walk-over to win the Trophy. They tend to forget this when discussing their fine tradition of sportsmanship and support of the underdog.
Just trying to keep up with Eric...
(NB: Dream on Jim, bigger than any of those funny moustangs and sputfire thingys... It took a real Italian man to get the world speed record with it.
)
Went in this;
And was cooled by this;
Note the radiators even on the float (sorry, 'pontoon') struts...
One of the coolest machines I've ever seen. Can you imagine what it would've been like to see in action?
PS: Back to the S6B. O'course the Brits forget to mention they wouldn't delay the last Schneider Trophy race until anyone else (like the Americans, French or Italians) was ready, so they had a walk-over to win the Trophy. They tend to forget this when discussing their fine tradition of sportsmanship and support of the underdog.
Just trying to keep up with Eric...
Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:03 am
Crikey!
JDK wrote:This:
(NB: Dream on Jim, bigger than any of those funny moustangs and sputfire thingys... It took a real Italian man to get the world speed record with it.
Went in this;
And was cooled by this;
Note the radiators even on the float (sorry, 'pontoon') struts...
One of the coolest machines I've ever seen. Can you imagine what it would've been like to see in action?
PS: Back to the S6B. O'course the Brits forget to mention they wouldn't delay the last Schneider Trophy race until anyone else (like the Americans, French or Italians) was ready, so they had a walk-over to win the Trophy. They tend to forget this when discussing their fine tradition of sportsmanship and support of the underdog.
Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:09 am
Jim Beasley wrote:Crikey!
See, under pressure, you revert!
Sorry, normal service will be resumed after those somethings completely different. Back to Mr Fixer.
Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:31 am
I think that the S.6B has radiators in the floats and fuselage sides, with the oil being cooled by the fin leading edge IIRC. I don't remember if the wings were used for cooling too, but I think probably not.
Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:48 am
Mike wrote:I think that the S.6B has radiators in the floats and fuselage sides, with the oil being cooled by the fin leading edge IIRC. I don't remember if the wings were used for cooling too, but I think probably not.
Mike
You may well be right but I was not alone in thinking that.
"To maintain a sleek low drag fuselage, frontal area was held to an absolute minimum (just barely enough to allow the pilot control movement) and engine cooling was achieved by surface heat transfer. Every available surface was used to dissipate heat from engine coolants and oil. This meant the tops of the floats, top and bottom of the wing, and the sides and bottom of the fuselage and in the case of the S.6B, the oil cooled in the fuselage side tubes was sprayed on the interior surfaces of the vertical tail. At one point a weight and balance issue was cured by not retaining so much oil in the tail!"
Mitchell referred to the S.6b as 'The Flying Radiator'.
PeterA
Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:57 am
Most interesting, thanks, Peter. More to the point, d'you have a cross section diagram of the Spitfire radiator/wing set up?
Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:03 am
JDK wrote:Most interesting, thanks, Peter. More to the point, d'you have a cross section diagram of the Spitfire radiator/wing set up?
I have a technical report somewhere. I will try to locate it.
As I recall the net effect of the radiator and ducting was positive.
'The xxxx effective'. I have forgotten his name but the scientist who did the research and development.
PeterA
Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:03 am
Jim Beasley wrote:We reject the Kings English (and that spelling???) although Rich and Fred have invented many new curse words
I have learnt many new words on this trip so far
Flashlight
wrench
cotter pin
and something about your son and the beach.
All very strange to me,but when in rome.....
Everyone is really amazed with the Spitfire not at least Rich,who has to keep walking away to compose himself after i have gone through some more strange english systems with him.
We are making great progress and having a great time.
Hope to make some noise later today....
Regards to all
Fred
Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:11 am
PeterA wrote:'The xxxx effective'. I have forgotten his name but the scientist who did the research and development.
PeterA
Griffith... I think.
'The xxxx effect' was the result of Aussie larger on Poms and Yanks alike, I'm told. Don't touch the stuff myself.
Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:14 am
Meredith effect.
Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:14 am
Meredith?
JDK wrote:PeterA wrote:'The xxxx effective'. I have forgotten his name but the scientist who did the research and development.
PeterA
Griffith... I think.
'The xxxx effect' was the result of Aussie larger on Poms and Yanks alike, I'm told. Don't touch the stuff myself.
Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:16 am
What a team!
And here's his 1935 report: http://contrails.free.fr/refroid_meredith_en.php
Extract, tying the S6 to Spitfire and Mustang rads:
And here's his 1935 report: http://contrails.free.fr/refroid_meredith_en.php
Extract, tying the S6 to Spitfire and Mustang rads:
Introductory. -- Cooling of aero engines involves the exposure of a large heated surface to a stream of air, a process which involves the expenditure of power owing to the viscosity of air. Until recently, it appeared that this fact imposed an intractable limit to the speed of aircraft since, whereas the heat transfer only varies directly as the speed of the air over the surface, the power expenditure varies as the cube. Thus even though the exposed surface be adjusted until only the required heat transfer is effected, the power expenditure increases as the square of the speed.
The advent of wing surface cooling appeared, at one time, to offer a solution of this difficulty by effecting the cooling without any additional surface. There is, however, reason to believe that the heat transfer necessarily increases the drag of the wing. Apart from this, the Supermarine S 6 B utilised practically the entire exposed surface for cooling and additional surface inside the wing. Further advance in speed appeared to depend upon raising the temperature of the surface.
It is the purpose of the report to show that, by correct design of low velocity cooling systems, in which the surface (whether in the form of honeycomb radiator or of fins on the cylinder heads and barrels) is exposed in an internal duct, the power expended on cooling does not increase with the speed of flight, but that, on the contrary, it should diminish to vanishing point at a practicable speed beyond which the cooling system contributes to the propulsion.
Last edited by JDK on Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:17 am
JDK wrote:PeterA wrote:'The xxxx effective'. I have forgotten his name but the scientist who did the research and development.
PeterA
Griffith... I think.
'The xxxx effect' was the result of Aussie larger on Poms and Yanks alike, I'm told. Don't touch the stuff myself.
It came to me...."Meredith effect".
Is 'Aussie larger' a big lager?
PeterA
Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:22 am
PeterA wrote:Is 'Aussie larger' a big lager?
Big enough for a 'tank' of beer.
Or would that be laager?
Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:03 am
bentwingbomber wrote:Jim Beasley wrote:We reject the Kings English (and that spelling???) although Rich and Fred have invented many new curse words
I have learnt many new words on this trip so far
Flashlight
wrench
cotter pin
and something about your son and the beach.
All very strange to me,but when in rome.....
Everyone is really amazed with the Spitfire not at least Rich,who has to keep walking away to compose himself after i have gone through some more strange english systems with him.
We are making great progress and having a great time.
Hope to make some noise later today....
Regards to all
Fred
Excellent update Fred!