Pink Floyds JU-87

262crew · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm **Posts:** 877

I was watching the Wall the other night no I did not have any mind altering substances in my system, seriously there was a JU-87 in the film and I was wondering if it was real or a model. It sure looked real. When was the last JU-87 flight?

JDK · **Posted:** Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:03 pm

I think there were some Czech(?) examples flown post W.W.II, but that was about it. The RAF Museum's Ju87D/G was got running in the sixties, but never flew. So a guess would be last flight was late 40s early 1950s.

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

JDK wrote:

The RAF Museum's Ju87D/G was got running in the sixties, but never flew.

Is this substantiated, or just rumor? I had always heard that they got that example running exclusively for the B of B film, but have never seen pictures or heard any first hand eyewitness reports. I thought it was a rumor. Can you add anything concrete or is it just heresay?

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:06 am

I just made it up for laffs.

I don't have any evidence personally. However my good friend the late Robert Rudhall, author of the two books on the type, as well as well-known BoB film authorities Gary Brown and Peter Arnold knew of the story and regard it, IIRC, as reliable. Peter or Gary may be able to elaborate. I'll ask them.

I've never seen any pics myself.

warbird1 · **Joined:** Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:25 pm **Posts:** 2760

JDK wrote:

I just made it up for laffs.

I don't have any evidence personally. However my good friend the late Robert Rudhall, author of the two books on the type, as well as well-known BoB film authorities Gary Brown and Peter Arnold knew of the story and regard it, IIRC, as reliable. Peter or Gary may be able to elaborate. I'll ask them.

I've never seen any pics myself.

I believe you, JDK. I'm just trying to make sure it isn't one of those "urban legends" that somehow got passed down through the decades. I don't doubt it happened, I would just love to either see pictures of it or hear first hand reports of the engine running.

262crew · **Joined:** Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:24 pm **Posts:** 877

After a quick search all I could find was a web site pissing and moaning about the camo scheme of the JU-87 in the movie not being correct. It said that the 87 was in desert camo not European dark camo. So I wonder if the shots from the wall were taken from BoB?

JDK · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:30 am

warbird1 wrote:

I believe you, JDK. I'm just trying to make sure it isn't one of those "urban legends" that somehow got passed down through the decades. I don't doubt it happened, I would just love to either see pictures of it or hear first hand reports of the engine running.

No, fair call. I'd do the same. It's just that the bloke I knew who told me was usually right about the film, and usually knew more than anyone else on it...

It's one of those tricks - not all the interesting stuff was photographed, and you're right, I don't know of a firsthand account of it, or names, either.

262crew wrote:

After a quick search all I could find was a web site pissing and moaning about the camo scheme of the JU-87 in the movie not being correct. It said that the 87 was in desert camo not European dark camo. So I wonder if the shots from the wall were taken from BoB?

Confused - The BoB models were in 1940 Europe colours, not N African... I don't know the footage, it'd be interesting to see.

Also, the models in the Battle of Britain film were 'D' or 'G' version with the tapered nose and canopy style (to match the RAF Museum aircraft, rather than the correct Bertha type of the period). So they're pretty obvious to spot as out-takes usually.

west-front · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:50 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGtKXMAgbVk

from 02:22 onwards , looks like a quite convincing scale model to my eye.

Quote:

George Roger Waters was born September 6, 1944, nearly seven months after his father's death that previous February

http://www.thewallanalysis.com/firstflesh.html

Quote:

Eric Fletcher Waters (1913 - 18 February 1944) was a committed Christian and pacifist, and during the early years of World War II he was a exempted from military service, as a conscientious objector, working instead as an ambulance driver at home in Cambridge. He grew more ardently anti-fascist, and began to reassess his feelings regarding active service in the fight against Nazi Germany.

Eventually, Waters abandoned pacifism and enlisted in the British Army, serving in C Company of the 8th Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment), in which he held the rank of Second Lieutenant.

He died in action at Anzio, Italy, on 18 February 1944, and is commemorated on Panel 5 of the Cassino Memorial, suggesting that his body was never found.

And also for those who haven't seen the film.

Quote:

The war movie on the television in Pink's hotel room is the classic WWII film _Dam Busters, The (1954)_.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084503/trivia

PeterA · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:19 am

JDK wrote:

I just made it up for laffs.

I don't have any evidence personally. However my good friend the late Robert Rudhall, author of the two books on the type, as well as well-known BoB film authorities Gary Brown and Peter Arnold knew of the story and regard it, IIRC, as reliable. Peter or Gary may be able to elaborate. I'll ask them.

I've never seen any pics myself.

I cannot confirm the story.

Aircraft for the Battle of Britain film UK element were gathered to RAF Henlow at the latter end of 1967 and through in to 1968. Here major restoration work to fly on three early Spitfires was undertaken together with 'Markaddie' conversions and assessment of German and Spanish aircraft. This work under the direction of Ron Boorman and Simpson Aero Services

I visited regularly over this period to monitor the incoming Spitfires for confirmation of their true identities.

There was certainly talk initially of the Ju87 being considered restorable to flight for the film and it was surveyed. The task in the time frame would have been enormous with the available resource and budget. That survey may have involved a brief run of the engine.

Keith Hamshere a unit stills photographer was tasked with taking test shots with grade scale of all the participating aircraft types, on the ground with their tails elevated to flying attitude to asses light level and behaviour prior to aerial photography. This was done in Tablada in Spain, Duxford for the Spitfires post the hangar collapse...but also on the Ju87 at Henlow. These latter shots show the aircraft still with the white rudder which JDK will confirm is pre film livery.

That the Ju87 was photographed elevated shows clear intent that flying was on the cards in the early days.

It would seem that plans for the Ju87 were changing quite fast. My shot here at Henlow shows that the it has lost its white rudder and acquired R+I markings and is in process of plaster moulds being taken for full size replication. This was later eclipsed in favour of using converted Proctor aircraft to succumb eventually to settling for just large full scale models.

By 18 April 1968 the Stuka hand been further repainted for a press rollout at Henlow.

So at least three liveries at Henlow...but no shots of the engine running I am afraid.

PeterA

Gary Norville · **Joined:** Sat Apr 02, 2005 10:13 am **Posts:** 92

Quote:

Quote:
Eric Fletcher Waters (1913 - 18 February 1944) was a committed Christian and pacifist, and during the early years of World War II he was a exempted from military service, as a conscientious objector, working instead as an ambulance driver at home in Cambridge. He grew more ardently anti-fascist, and began to reassess his feelings regarding active service in the fight against Nazi Germany.

Eventually, Waters abandoned pacifism and enlisted in the British Army, serving in C Company of the 8th Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment), in which he held the rank of Second Lieutenant.

He died in action at Anzio, Italy, on 18 February 1944, and is commemorated on Panel 5 of the Cassino Memorial, suggesting that his body was never found.

On the album Echos, there is a song called "When the Tigers Broke Free" which tells the Waters Anzio story.

ZRX61 · **Joined:** Tue Jun 14, 2005 10:16 am **Posts:** 2309

It's a scale model in The Wall ....

...altho Dave Gilmours P51 is real

Chad Veich · **Posted:** Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:10 pm

ZRX61 wrote:

It's a scale model in The Wall ....

...altho Dave Gilmours P51 is real

Certainly the Mustang is real but no longer belongs to Mr. Gilmour. Does he still have any vintage aircraft in his ownership?

DarenC1 · **Joined:** Sun May 07, 2006 8:10 am **Posts:** 235

ZRX61 wrote:

It's a scale model in The Wall ....

But also BofB outtakes.

lestweforget · **Posted:** Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:38 pm

Gary Norville wrote:

Quote:

Quote:
Eric Fletcher Waters (1913 - 18 February 1944) was a committed Christian and pacifist, and during the early years of World War II he was a exempted from military service, as a conscientious objector, working instead as an ambulance driver at home in Cambridge. He grew more ardently anti-fascist, and began to reassess his feelings regarding active service in the fight against Nazi Germany.

Eventually, Waters abandoned pacifism and enlisted in the British Army, serving in C Company of the 8th Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers (City of London Regiment), in which he held the rank of Second Lieutenant.

He died in action at Anzio, Italy, on 18 February 1944, and is commemorated on Panel 5 of the Cassino Memorial, suggesting that his body was never found.

On the album Echos, there is a song called "When the Tigers Broke Free" which tells the Waters Anzio story.

I know I posted this before, but I think this is very well done

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bjFZLJA3Wqg

T6flyer · **Posted:** Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:37 pm

Chad Veich wrote:

Certainly the Mustang is real but no longer belongs to Mr. Gilmour. Does he still have any vintage aircraft in his ownership?

Mr Gilmour still owns a Stearman, a Super Cub and the world's only surviving SNJ-7C Bu90678.

Martin

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