Chuck Yeager article in Flight Journal(wow)

T33driver · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:39 am

Jack Cook wrote:

Chuck should know having wrecked a T-6 not to long ago :twisted:

Spot on Jack! If it weren't for wealthy warbird owners, CY wouldn't have been able to fly in more recent years...for free I might add! Sour grapes? Envy? Spare me Chuck!

Steve · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:28 am

As for any report that he was seen to slump down, before the crash: how do you know that? Who made that report and what was his viewing place? As I recall the 51 flight was holding on the SE side of the lake, over open ground, and Dick was last in the Daisy chain line. So who could see in his cockpit, especially if they were maneuvering? I may certainly be wrong, but the idea of him having a medical problem seems like it may be a plausible explanation made up after the accident to make the facts fit the situation; rather than known and provable fact. As I recall the flight lead did not even know that Dick had a problem until he just went missing?

Bill
All I know is second hand from the Coroner my wife talked with I have not seen a coroner's report so this is all hear-say. I would assume the coroner talked with the pilots who were with him, but I really don't know.
Dick James was one of a kind and a great loss. I have been told the entire wreakage is buried on the family farm

Steve

oscardeuce · **Joined:** Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:34 am **Posts:** 1021

I'm sorry I double posted on this, I missed the other on my blackberry.

I sent a note to Gen Yeager through flight journal. Safety should be paramount, and I think that was his theme, poorly executed to say the least.

Garth · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:04 pm

oscardeuce wrote:

I'm sorry I double posted on this, I missed the other on my blackberry.

I sent a note to Gen Yeager through flight journal. Safety should be paramount, and I think that was his theme, poorly executed to say the least.

Meaning no disrespect to Yeager or his accomplishments, but wasn't there a big legal fight not too long ago where his kids were trying to get him declared incompetent and out from under the control of his second wife?

How sure are we that this article was really written by Yeager and/or reflects his true sentiments? I recall the situation with Isaac Hayes and South Park over Scientology-related comments attributed to him but which were later claimed to have been made in his name by others.

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:17 pm

Quote:

How sure are we that this article was really written by Yeager and/or reflects his true sentiments?

have you ever met him?? I'm guessing no.
Go to aafo.com then forum and search for him and thread you'll find with
answer your question in spades.!

I'll make it easy.........
http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/showthread.php?t=3122&highlight=chuck+yeager

Garth · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:51 pm

Jack Cook wrote:

Quote:

How sure are we that this article was really written by Yeager and/or reflects his true sentiments?

have you ever met him?? I'm guessing no.
Go to aafo.com then forum and search for him and thread you'll find with
answer your question in spades.!

I'll make it easy.........
http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/showthread.php?t=3122&highlight=chuck+yeager

I've met General Yeager a number of times, mostly at the annual October speeches he'd give at NASM.

He was always extremely personable and gracious - especially when it came to the folks who would bring 20 or 30 items for him to autograph and those who wished to engage in lengthy conversations with him once they reached the front of the queue. I was of the type to linger off to the side to listen in on those conversations, rather than do more than exchange a few words with him.

Those appearances stopped a good number of years ago, and apart from this article the only thing substantive that I'd heard about or from him recently was the fight between him/his wife (2nd wife) and his kids over his competence to manage his own affairs.

Based on what I've read, I understand that people with more knowledge than the average bear on the subject tend to either love him or hate him. The last thing I intended to do with my post above was to insert myself into that argument and I thought I was asking a legitimate question in a reasonable manner.

A2C · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:59 pm

This discussion is a s%%t stirring exercise. Especially the invasive bit about questing his health for flying, that's over the line. This whole discussion reminds me of the potporazzi articles in people magazine. or worse the enquirer. Leave the poor guy alone. He's probably almost 90 years old!

Saville · **Joined:** Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:45 am **Posts:** 518

Caveat:

Haven't read the article.

Comments:

1) Did CY write the article? I suspect not. Were his ideas, comments etc captured correctly? Did the writer enhance the "people are screwing up" portion (consciously or subconsciously) to make a more interesting article? It wouldn't be the first time quotes were taken in such a way as to make the message a little different from what was intended.

2) Everyone is flawed. Everyone. Me, all of you. All. Name whatever hero you want....they have flaws. Churchill? flawed, FDR? flawed Scott Crossfield? flawed. Imagine the nicest, kindest, most unassuming, generous to a fault person you know.

flawed.

So is CY flawed? Well of course. I suspect anyone who thinks he's one of the two extremes isn't seeing the whole person. Thank the stars one doesn't have to be perfect to be a hero: that way we have more heros, and you have a chance of joining the list.

3) CY is getting old. Do older people get crochety....feel more free to say what's on their minds? Maybe more opinionated?

sure.

4) Remember the immortal words of Pappy Boyington in the last sentence of his book:

"Just name me a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum."

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:10 pm

Quote:

Remember the immortal words of Pappy Boyington in the last sentence of his book:
"Just name me a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum."

If one more person throws that out on this forum while trying make a point I think I'll barf :vom:

A couple quotes about CY I think are notable

Quote:

I can't think of many people who have spent more than a few minutes with him that do not have a Chuck Yeager story. It is rare to find someone that will go out of their way and waste their own time to make someone feel like s**t, so he is a rare find. His own peers find his actions distasteful. One quote that sums it all up goes like this, though I know of many more. "Would you like to fly in our TBM?" Answer, "Why would I want to fly in that piece of s**t." I am not directing any of this at the people having their airplane painted up as "Glamourous Glen III". I just get tired of those who are treated like gods when they do not deserve it. There are tens of thousands of Americans who are true heroes and ask for no special treatment.

and

Quote:

I think when Yeager takes his final checkride, he will be remembered among pilots and those that met him, for the sound barrier and his arrogance. Not much of a legacy if you ask me.

bipe215 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:19 pm

Bill Greenwood wrote:

Steve, he was a friend of mine also, I was talking and joking with Dick on the porch of the warbird briefing room just before he went to takeoff that day. He seemed normal to me, his usual energetic self. Of course, I had no suspicion and wasn't looking for any physical problem.

As for any report that he was seen to slump down, before the crash: how do you know that? Who made that report and what was his viewing place? As I recall the 51 flight was holding on the SE side of the lake, over open ground, and Dick was last in the Daisy chain line. So who could see in his cockpit, especially if they were maneuvering? I may certainly be wrong, but the idea of him having a medical problem seems like it may be a plausible explanation made up after the accident to make the facts fit the situation; rather than known and provable fact. As I recall the flight lead did not even know that Dick had a problem until he just went missing?

Mustanglover; while I can't find the my copy of the Nall report from AOPA right now; I am certain enough that I'd bet money on what I wrote, i e that ALL MEDICAL CAUSES are only about 1 or 2 percent of TOTAL FATAL ACCIDENTS. Of these, about 60 % are alcohol related, so only about 4/10 of one percent of fatals are pure medical incapacitation out of the blue. We are sort of confusing the wording, in Dick's case since there is no KNOW or provable medical cause, then we don't know if there was any incapacitation at all. While it could have happened, but just from probability numbers, loss of control while maneuvering at low altitude is a more likely cause. A stall at low alt could result in an nose down impact also.

I don't remember seeing the final NTSB report, can someone post it here?

I think this is it:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_ ... 197&akey=1

Saville · **Joined:** Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:45 am **Posts:** 518

Jack Cook wrote:

Quote:

Remember the immortal words of Pappy Boyington in the last sentence of his book:
"Just name me a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum."

If one more person throws that out on this forum while trying make a point I think I'll barf

Here's your air sick bag

More relevant than a quote from a bowling alley attendant

Ken · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:42 pm

How does anyone really "know" a person? Meeting someone at an airshow and getting an autograph, having a conversation, or being offered a ride in their airplane does not constitute knowing someone with regard to their character, motives, etc. Reading their book or seeing the movie is even less credible. Anyone can put on a show when they feel it's in their best interest.

Saying that CY or any particular Warbird owner is (or is not) a good, upstanding guy is not possible for the vast majority of us because we only know the brief snippets we see as part of the greater public. I will say that until you have spent plenty of behind the scenes time with someone and seen them in less than perfect conditions ... such as a combat deployment or when money (or another integrity issue) is on the line are you truly able to say who you're dealing with.

Yes, articles and brief meetings help form opinions - but opinions are not knowledge.

I too have opinions on CY as a pilot and as a person - but opinions aren't worth sharing. I have knowledge of some Warbird owners who hold high public opinion but would cross you in a minute - sharing that would be counterproductive.

I haven't heard anyone say, "I've known CY for years, had dinner at his home several times, and visited him in the hospital the last time he was ill and my knowledge of him is ...... " That tells me all the rest is pure hot air speculation - just wishful thinking by posters, both pro and con.

Ken

Saville · **Joined:** Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:45 am **Posts:** 518

Ken,

Well said. What I tried to say but you did it much better.

Hellcat · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:59 pm

Valid points, both pro and con, but as we all should know, people that may not know someone personally will perceive that person by their actions and statements. If CY is perceived as a hard*ss publically then he will always be known as such, no matter who he may truely be privately.

Just take me as an example, WIXers perceive me as a hot tempered tough guy, when I'm actually 5'-0" tall, 120 lbs with a wooden leg and as nice and cuddly as a puppy .... who would have thought ... :wink:

EDowning · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:47 pm

Hellcat wrote:

Quote:

Just take me as an example, WIXers perceive me as a hot tempered tough guy, when I'm actually 5'-0" tall, 120 lbs with a wooden leg and as nice and cuddly as a puppy .... who would have thought ...

Who knew? I would have thought you were much smaller :shock:

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