CAF Curtiss P-40N Warhawk Restoration

[Second Air Force]

I know where I would like to put it.

My thoughts exactly.

[retroaviation]

Thanks for posting the update on the P-40, Taylor. I'll be making another inspection on the airplane soon. Can't wait to see it back in the air.

Gary

[Nathan]

As for the propriety of AVG markings on a P-40N in the first place, I guess I'm solidly in the camp that will be outvoted by the majority who favor tribute over accuracy.

Agreed. I always like authentic warbirds. I can't say the CAF paint is totally correct though but thats all I'll say casue I dont want to get flamed. The P-40 boasted a mulititude of different camo schemes. Even the AVG P-40's were NOT all the same color. But oh well. Thankfully the P-40 is starting to be honored for more then just the AVG. Saying people only know the P-40 because of the Flying Tigers I can't say I agree with either. Ask our friends down under. Im sure they have a different answer then that one.


Im glad its for honor of Tex Hill.


cheers,
Nate

[Taylor Stevenson]

In regards to the authenticity of the paint scheme, here is what the man who painted her told me,

"As per all the interest in the P40 colors, here is how they were chosen. In 1940-1941 Curtiss employed Dupont as their supplier. The three colors we used came from the original codes for Dark Earth, Dark Green and Sky Blue. We have both the chip colors and codes on hand. These were used on the P40s shipped to Burma. The Sandy Earth was most likely used on the Desert Air Force Tomahawks.We used a matte finish instead of a incorrect high gloss. As for the tiger and panda, they are all painted by hand, though we did "cheat" a little with some airbrushing. Thanks for all the nice coments, Mark Zello
Mark Zello
Flying Colors Of Texas
2450 Airport Drive
Gainesville, Texas 76240
PH (940) 665-7928
CELL (469) 831-7928
TOLL FREE 888-665-7928
flyingcolorstx@yahoo.com
www.flyingcolorsoftexas.com"

[k5083]

Thanks for the info Mark.

I'm not persuaded that the colors are correct, but at least an effort was made. Several times in the past, I have had owners/restorers of clearly incorrectly painted aircraft tell me that they were matched to original color chips. I have never seen duPont 71-009 and 71-013 (the colors that should have been matched for the topside camo) look like that before. Maybe 71-065 was matched for the brown instead of 71-009? That color could have been used on some aircraft but most researchers consider -009, a lighter sandy brown, the color likely used on AVG P-40B/Cs.

The consensus among researchers is strong that P-40s built to British order and used by the AVG had light grey (sometimes quoted 71-021 but in modern parlance said to be close to FS 36473) undersides, not light blue. Profile drawings of Tex's airplane done in consultation with Tex when he was alive tend to bear out the light grey. That stands out as the most questionable aspect of the new paint scheme.

Do you know offhand whether an expert in the subject matter such as Dana Bell was consulted?

August

[Young Shep]

My friend 'Bear' Barricklow has been the crew chief on this bird for years, but I don't see him in the pictures...hope he's still involved with the P-40....he has been hoping for a repaint of the bird for years, I imagine he's happy as a lark right now....



Shot this pic of her over Breckenridge back in 95 or 96, Bear helped us set up the photo mission (thought I had some of just the -40 scanned in but guess not)....Steve Rister is riding in the SNJ in the foreground shooting video of her...

Glad to see the old gal get some well deserved TLC...

Mark

Hey - I know that SNJ pretty well.....

[Jack Cook]

While the a/c is atrractive and the work done excellent I find the markings not very authentic.
First off the serial number (I guess that's what it is) has displaced the CAF (has in Chinese) serial number to way up on the fin.
Secondly only the 3rd sqd had the 3 color design on their wheel covers.
Also the kill markers are hugely out of proportion and above them forward of the windscreen should say
PILOT
D.L. HILL
A few folks have tried putting the tomahawk style shark's mouth on later version but it's never worked well.
Has for the camo I think August is correct.
Maintence 10/10 good job!!!!
Paint scheme 4/10

[bluehawk15]

It seems the current trend is to put the CAF logo under the canopy rail, or as close to it as they can. I think CAF HQ is trying to standardize the location on different types.

[JDK]

Saying people only know the P-40 because of the Flying Tigers I can't say I agree with either. Ask our friends down under. Im sure they have a different answer then that one.

Quite.

And the Brits (that is those who are mildly interested in W.W.II aviation) will know that the shark-mouth was first put on P-40s by 112 Squadron Desert Air Force, before it was copied (and acknowledged) by the AVG. My Kiwi cousins will have their own take also.

Important type, nice to see it well restored, and a tribute to Tex is quite in order, of course.

[Taylor Stevenson]

I disagree still... the average person, especially American, would associate the teeth with the famed Flying Tigers of the AVG and the P-40. They wouldnt associate the teeth with the 112th sq Desert guys... This is being said by stepping out of our warbird bubble... We all know the teeth weren't started by the Tigers, nor did a N model ever serve with the AVG. Like I said before to non-warbird types the P-40 is that plane with the teeth... not the one that is OD, or in RCAF marking, or with a parrot head... My 2 cents... and don't you think for a second that I'm biased towards AVG schemes. I think it would be cool to see an RCAF P-40 or any of the other paint schemes. But I'm straying from the original topic... the CAF's GORGEOUS P-40N! Does anyone have any reallllly early photos of her?

[valdez25]

Yep... my bad ..... Taylor, the red paint came from Mike Dillon, when the bird was kept down in Pt Arthur, Texas down at the old grass strip... not at the current Jefferson County Airport.... or as they now call it,Southeast Regional or some crud like that.... Anyway, this bird has seen the gulf waters in more ways than from the air and rain.
Alan

What do you mean about the "gulf waters" comment?

[Old Shep]

Re: the formation shot with the SNJ #24....That was our family's (Old Shep I, Old Shep II, and Young Shep) SNJ (actually a Harvard II) for 25 years. Pix was taken at Breckinridge and I believe Ollie Crawford is flying the P-40 and Old Shep I is flying the J...Those were the good ole days at Howard's shindig, when gas was cheaper and folks just showed up to fly.

I kick myself for selling #24 almost daily...until I think about avgas at $5.25 per gallon.

Old Shep

[Steve Rister]

Hey Old Shep, I hate it that you sold the SNJ also! It was Ray Kinney
flying the P-40 in the above photo. Kinda bouncy that day.

Stephen

[Nathan]

Saying people only know the P-40 because of the Flying Tigers I can't say I agree with either. Ask our friends down under. Im sure they have a different answer then that one.

Quite.

And the Brits (that is those who are mildly interested in W.W.II aviation) will know that the shark-mouth was first put on P-40s by 112 Squadron Desert Air Force, before it was copied (and acknowledged) by the AVG. My Kiwi cousins will have their own take also.

Important type, nice to see it well restored, and a tribute to Tex is quite in order, of course.

And didnt the 112 squadron get the idea from shark mouth Me 110's? Interesting just on how the whole sharks mouth thing got started.

[Jack Cook]

The shark's mouths go back to WWI and the name Flying Tigers originated with a British floatplane squadron #814 in Singapore in the 20/30s.
My cousin also flew in the Flying Tigers!!! HMM-361
Flying magaizine in 1940-41 did a special on the RAF and had a beautiful full page color shot of a debonair RAF pilot leaning against his shark mouthed P-40E in the Western Desert.
That's were the glammourization of the started!!!!!