Warbird Information Exchange

Since we're on the topic of Wacos, I've recently read that isn't a living person who truly understands the mysteries of Waco type designations.

However, I've also heard that they're fairly easy to understand if you have the right 'cheat sheet' which explains the various combinations of fuselage type, engine etc and their link to the type letters.

I can't find a currently in-print book which gives this information. Does anyone have such a table, or can point me at one in a book or magazine article?

Good question. I'm interested to see if anyone's got an answer too.

- David

All I know abou the subject is here.

http://aerofiles.com/wacodata.html

Thus the 1929 Waco ATO I fly was Wright J-5 powered, tapered wings, open fuselage (of the early type).

At the moment it has a J-6, so it's a CTO, but we're not changing the literature.

Quite simple actually. The Aerofiles link is about 50% right. The engine portion is correct....the second letter should really be concentrated on the wing planform and the third should be fuselage design.

Hence...the only difference between an ASO and ATO is the wings Straight and Tapered.

The dash number is usually the year of introduction. Usually a different year is applied if there is enough desing change to warrant a new CAA TCDS yet the basic structure was all the same.

I would say that I have an excellent grasp on the Waco nomenclature but I have been around them 46 years. I also run the National Waco Club as well. Quite a few others within the NWC including WHEELSUP who posted above also have the knowledge. If anyone has any questions ask away!

MIKE....no such book currently in print today. You can find the various Ray Brandly books on Amazon or Ebay from time to time. He published WACO PRODUCTION, THE F SERIES, THE CABIN SERIES, TAPERWINGS and lastly the WACO HISTORY. The U.S. Civil Aircraft volumes 1-9 by Juptner are a good source. WHEELSUP is correct in saying that Aerofiles is pretty close as I have worked with them extensively in order to help them get it right.

How would you rate "WACO Symbol of Courage & Excellence" Vol. I , by Fred Kobernuss. 1992? It states Volume II would be coming along afterward. Did a Vol. II ever get into print?
Aside from the confusion by many as to the WACO type & model codes. I don't think any two books or articles ever had/have the same exact dates for the evolution of the entities of Weaver, Advance & Waco companies. (some not REALLY official or accurately documented,) especially when the changes were official? I am aware of the date of incorporation documents but WACO was used well before that, wasn't it? Kobernuss tried to show the confusion, and admitted being confused, himself,using all sorts of original documents and commercial advertisement that contradict each other. About the only thing NOT confusing about WACO history, is they built a LOT of the most beautiful civil aircraft produced in "The Golden Age."
Those magnificent photos you posted on the other thread were jaw-dropping! Thanks.

_________________
hundreds of images of aero art, memorabilia, photos and artifacts at;
www.memaerobilia.com

There is a volume 2 available (volume I is out of print now) but it really only covers the early models (Waco 9 & 10).

Thats why we are writing the book on Wacos. I have tried for years to correct mistakes, typos, falsities, etc. Waco is not the only manufacturer by any means that has had alot of false information written about it. There was a very clear time period for Waco and all its various names. First was DJB, then Weaver Aircraft Co. aka Waco, then Advance Aircraft then finally just WACO. All this happened prior to 1929. From mid-1929 on, it was Waco Aircraft Company until it was bought by Allied Industries.

One of the best sources I have is all the original sales records from Waco. I can tell you everything about a particular airplane such as colors, interior, instruments, wheels, brakes, prop, engine and anything additional that was added. There is also a list of every owner from new until about 1946. I also have another binder from Waco that tells when each airplane was ordered and lists every Waco built whether it was sold or not. Every fuselage was assigned a serial number, however, not all were sold. Many of these still existed when Waco went out of business around 1964. My family actually bought 3 complete fuselages of 1936 Waco C-6 models for $25 each. They had the complete woodwork and complete interiors installed. I was the coolest kid on the block with 3 Wacos sitting in his yard to play in!

Very cool! So what happened to these fuselages?

I hope these are locked up in a fire proof safe! Wow... I could get lost for hours reading those. Just think of all the stories behind all those unique Wacos!

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Blue Skies,
Dan
http://www.flytoanothertime.com

The fuselages ended up all going out to a local airport where we were restoring our Waco CRG. There were a number of other fuselages taken out there as well...some SRE models, some tri-gear AVN-8's and a few others. Most all the interior stuff was scavenged and sold. The fuselages remained outside and became a source of tubing for homebuilders and for repairs on other airplanes. A couple were sold or just hauled off. What remained was then just cut up and buried. We kept one fuselage for many years, finally selling it in the mid-1990's. By then all interior items had been sold and it was basically just a fuselage with alot of broken woodwork after so many moves. The fuselage is now in western Canada and is the basis of another float equipped C-6 model that was recovered off a mountainside by helicopter.

As far as the Waco records, the sales sheets are quite incredible. Many actually include color drawings of the particular paint scheme ordered. The military D sales sheets include actual fabric samples with paint so that Waco could get the colors right for Uraguay. It is also interesting to see how many times lower wings got ordered for particular airplanes. These sales sheets start about 1929 and go to the end in 1942. By the mid-1930's they are very detailed, especially with the Cabins. Apparently, Waco did not keep real good records of all the Waco 10's (over 1000) that they built....probably too busy to do so

I got my 'cheat sheets' from aerofiles via a link on this forum. Anytime one of you mentions a Waco, I grab my oldies binder and look it up. And then try to make sense of it.

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"I love the smell of 100LL in the morning."

There is a joke amongst the Waco people...they call me "RAINMAN" as they can just say an N number and I can tell them what model, year made, whether it is still in existance and probably who owns it...all from memory! But I am sure many of you are like that with particular warbirds. There are only so many left and after being a student of this for 40 years, it kinda becomes like collecting baseball cards...or stamps/coins...you know all the cards/coins/stamps you have when it comes time to trade/buy. If you ever have a question, feel free to ask me!!!

I have gotten pretty good at the 3-letter codes over the years, but when I run across a photo of one whose type I just can't identify, I provisionally label it a "Waco WTF".

August