"New" 2 Hole Spitfire in the air and on the market

Warbirdnerd · **Joined:** Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:34 pm **Posts:** 2944

From ANN:

Quote:

Historic Spitfire Returns To The Sky... And It's For Sale... Painstaking Restoration Of Rare Two-Seater Completed

With its Rolls Royce Merlin engine and beautiful elliptical
wings, the Supermarine Spitfire is both a design icon and a piece
of British history. Last week, the number of airworthy Spitfires
grew... as a rare two-seat variant took to the skies for its first
time following a lengthy restoration.

At 1605 local time on Friday October 17, test pilot Jonathan
Whaley strapped into the valuable classic and took it aloft for a
15-minute flight from Thruxton airfield in Hampshire, England.

The aircraft in question was built as a single-seat fighter for
the Royal Air Force in 1944, and registered as SM520. After World
War II, it was sold to the South African Air Force, though details
of its service in that country remain unknown.

Discovered in a Cape Town scrap yard in the 1970s, it was
acquired by the late Charles Church and brought home to the UK.
Church began to restore SM520, but when he died in 1989 the
aircraft was sold to Alan Dunkerley, who in turn resold it to Paul
Portelli in June 2002.

The aircraft has been restored by Classic Aero Engineering at
Thruxton. Gloucestershire-based Retro Track & Air has
overhauled the mighty Merlin engine, and German company Hoffman
provided the huge four-bladed propeller.

During restoration, the decision was made to convert the
aircraft into a rare two-seat Tr.9 configuration. In the late
1940s, Vickers-Supermarine converted a number of Spitfires into
two-seaters, and the type was exported to countries such as Ireland
and the Netherlands.

The team of Bruce Ellis, Gavin Langford and Gareth Ellis, aided
and abetted by Irene Sanders and Simon Netton, have used original
blueprints to turn SM520 into the very latest Spitfire Tr.9.

Until now, just five two-seaters were in airworthy condition
around the world, but SM520 -- which is now registered as G-ILDA
with the UK Civil Aviation Authority -- today became the sixth.
More than 20,000 Spitfires were built, but fewer than 50 remain
airworthy today. The aircraft will now continue testing in the
hands of Jonathan Whaley and Dave 'Rats' Ratcliffe.

Sadly, Portelli passed away before he could see his beloved
Spitfire take to the skies... and SM520 is now being offered for
sale. The aircraft will be sold with a full UK Civil Aviation
Authority Permit to Fly. Offers in excess of pound2.0 Million
(about $3.5 Million US) are being sought.
FMI: www.classicaerothruxton.co.uk

Connery · **Posted:** Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:51 am

Since SM520 was never a 2-seater during it's operational life, what was the basis behind converting it during the restoration? Seems like it would be more valuable not to mention more accurate to have kept it as it was originally built.

n5151ts · **Posted:** Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:29 am

[quote="Connery"]Since SM520 was never a 2-seater during it's operational life, what was the basis behind converting it during the restoration? Seems like it would be more valuable not to mention more accurate to have kept it as it was originally built.

typically enjoy sharing our experience with others. I particularly enjoy taking someone up who flew in WW II and is now retired from flying. To see the range of feelings that someone experiences who was there once is far more valuable than keeping a particular example of a plane "original" thats what fiberglass mock-ups are for.

PeterA · **Posted:** Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:04 am

SM520 - The starting point.

Snake Valley, SAAF. July 1981.

PeterA

gary1954 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:13 am

TREASURE

Jack Cook · **Posted:** Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:33 am

on the market.....are you sure :idea:

n5151ts · **Posted:** Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:13 pm

PeterA wrote:

SM520 - The starting point.

Snake Valley, SAAF. July 1981.

PeterA

holy cow what a project...

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:05 pm

Connery wrote:

Since SM520 was never a 2-seater during it's operational life, what was the basis behind converting it during the restoration? Seems like it would be more valuable not to mention more accurate to have kept it as it was originally built.

The majority of the dual control P-51 "TF-51"s out there currently were never built as dual control airplanes, either.

But, the popularity of such types drive those conversions being made.

In fact, the current "value" IS higher in a dual control fighter because of that demand.

Mark_Pilkington · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:58 am

Quote:

Since SM520 was never a 2-seater during it's operational life, what was the basis behind converting it during the restoration? Seems like it would be more valuable not to mention more accurate to have kept it as it was originally built.

typically enjoy sharing our experience with others. I particularly enjoy taking someone up who flew in WW II and is now retired from flying. To see the range of feelings that someone experiences who was there once is far more valuable than keeping a particular example of a plane "original" thats what fiberglass mock-ups are for.

I think the photos above show that there is very little original SM520 or original "Supermarine" built Spitfire in the rebuild in anycase, and on that basis I dont have a problem in it being reproduced or constructed as a 2 seat Tr.9 if thats what the customer ordered, without those efforts it would still look like it did in Death Valley South Africa.

I think the rebuilders have done an excellent job to reproduce the aircraft from the remains available.

I think if it was an existing authentic, complete and original spitfire, it would be dis-appointing to see it so converted, regardless of the market demand and value.

As pointed our above there are many two seat Mustangs and P40's supposedly modified in line with wartime examples but not themselves ever previously configured that way, however most of those modifications are less obvious, and less structural than the Tr.9 conversion with its relocated forward cockpit.

In Australia we have an airworthy rebuild underway of a two seat Boomerang with rear seat controls, something that never existed in the manufacturers design or field modifications, again this aircraft is being built up of residue remains and brand new components, and without the owners efforts would never be a complete aircraft in anycase.

However these particular modifications to customer wants and market requirements, and many other compromises to accuracy/originality due to technical requirements, improved safety or lack of servicable original equipment do reduce existing restored original or reproduction / new build airframe's authenticity.

Justifying the need for prinstine static museum examples to also exist, not to simply be fibreglass mockups.

While it might be great to provide WW2 veterans or new generations with the enjoyment of a back seat ride, only a very small proportion of the population ever gets that opportunity.

Originals preserved in static museums, without the need to renew and replace for airworthy performance can retain the originality that airworthy restorations or new build reproductions cannot.

In Australia we originally considered only one Boomerang had survived into preservation, that aircraft is now in the static collection of the RAAFM at Point Cook, since that time we have seen a US based reproduction, and restored/reconstruction and a restoration all take to the skies with a number of others under restoration to either static or airworthy outcomes.

The loss of authenticity on one of those to create a two seater, is lessened by the original preserved within the RAAFM static collection, and a number of others under restoration for static display, leaving the flying examples to perform other preservation roles, ie demontrating the aircraft in the air, thankfully we dont have to rely on fibreglass replicas in our static museums, to preserve this important Australian type.

There is a place for airworthy reproductions in the preservation role, as there is for airworthy restored originals, and static restored originals, and even a place for the odd fibreglass full scale mockup, lets enjoy and acknowledge each for their role.

Regards

Mark Pilkington

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:47 am

Randy Haskin wrote:

Connery wrote:

Since SM520 was never a 2-seater during it's operational life, what was the basis behind converting it during the restoration? Seems like it would be more valuable not to mention more accurate to have kept it as it was originally built.

The majority of the dual control P-51 "TF-51"s out there currently were never built as dual control airplanes, either.

But, the popularity of such types drive those conversions being made.

In fact, the current "value" IS higher in a dual control fighter because of that demand.

Thanks chaps.

A new two seat Spitfire is guaranteed to be popular with more hopeful wannabees hanging around than a single-seater...

Given Randy's remark regarding Mustangs (can you add and reliable figures to that? Even a percentage?) I'd be interested in knowing if a two-seat Spitfire is regarded as 'higher value' than a Mk.VIII, IX or XVI say. (For a given value of 'value'. - not all figures quoted for Spitfire sales are a reliable record...)

Cheers,

51fixer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:30 am

JDK wrote:

Randy Haskin wrote:

Connery wrote:

Since SM520 was never a 2-seater during it's operational life, what was the basis behind converting it during the restoration? Seems like it would be more valuable not to mention more accurate to have kept it as it was originally built.

The majority of the dual control P-51 "TF-51"s out there currently were never built as dual control airplanes, either.

But, the popularity of such types drive those conversions being made.

In fact, the current "value" IS higher in a dual control fighter because of that demand.

Thanks chaps.

A new two seat Spitfire is guaranteed to be popular with more hopeful wannabees hanging around than a single-seater...

Given Randy's remark regarding Mustangs (can you add and reliable figures to that? Even a percentage?) I'd be interested in knowing if a two-seat Spitfire is regarded as 'higher value' than a Mk.VIII, IX or XVI say. (For a given value of 'value'. - not all figures quoted for Spitfire sales are a reliable record...)

Cheers,

Typically the new TF-51 is either a new build or is rebuilt complete with new spars, longerons and spars along with all new skin. This alone would take a stock 51 from around 1.2 -1.5 mil as unrestored but flying to around 2.0 - 2.5 as a restored craft. Adding the TF to it usually takes the TF to the 2.7-2.8 range. Other factors come into play with the stock examples being built as original as we have seen lately. The price tags for those will be higher.
Rich

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:40 am

Thanks for that insight Rich, most authoritative.

Is it a buyers or sellers market for TF's, would you say?

51fixer · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:16 am

JDK wrote:

Thanks for that insight Rich, most authoritative.

Is it a buyers or sellers market for TF's, would you say?

There is some who have the means to buy regardless of any economic state. They will pay top dollar. The normal market sees some ups and downs. There is I believe, 2 TFs advertised for sale at the moment at 2.7. Many sales are unadvertised though and advertised vs actual price can vary a bit.
As with all collectibles there are many factors. Sometimes a fire sale price can be found through estates or economic issues but often the price is the price. If you want it you'll have to pay it. There are some A/C trading hands but I really don't see either a buyers or sellers market in the high end stuff. There does seem to be a slightly larger number of trainers on the market but I haven't seen a real drop in advertised prices.
Rich

Joe Scheil · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:00 am

Hopefully she comes to the States....

The brief on a fantastic resurection...and flight pics?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8TNj2OxsM

Spitfire T9 Serial No. SM520
The Spitfire TR9 G-ILDA was built by Vickers Armstrong in 1944. It was an AH Mark 9, delivered to 33MU on the 23rd Oct 1944. Its serial number was SM 520.

SM 520 was sold to the South African Air Force in 1948 (its SAAF history is unknown). It was discovered in a scrap yard in Cape Town in the 1970s, and purchased by Charles Church. Mr Church started to restore SM520. When he died in 1989, it was sold to Alan Dunkerley, who resold it to Paul Portelli in June 2002.

Restoration
Classic Aero Engineering Ltd. (CAE) was contracted to restore SM 520 to its original Vickers specification. Led by Bruce Ellis, the CAE team began by overhauling all the parts required to undertake the restoration. At the same time (over 2 years) the fuselage was converted from a MK 9 to a MK TR9 spec by Airframe Assemblies. Bruce Ellis spent many weeks at RAF Hendon Museum obtaining and researching every known drawing of the TR9; since a considerable amount of very detailed work had to be carried out by CAE to ensure the Airframe Assemblies fuselage and wings matched the original Vickers specification, this proved crucial. The aircraft is a complete zero timed restoration from ground up. At Dursley, Gloucestershire, meanwhile, Retro Track & Air overhauled and zero timed the mighty Rolls Royce Merlin266 engine. It was Hoffman that supplied the four bladed zero time propeller (through their agents Skycraft Ltd in the UK).

The Aircraft Airworthiness Notice and all modification details are currently with UK Civil Aviation Authority, to whose ‘Permit to Fly’ certification standards the aircraft is being restored. Engine runs commence during October 2007; the restoration will be completed by December 2007. It is anticipated that the CAA permit will be issued in March/April 2008.

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:20 pm

JDK wrote:

[Given Randy's remark regarding Mustangs (can you add and reliable figures to that? Even a percentage?)

Yes.

There are zero original TEMCO TF-51s still flying, which is what I would consider an "original" dual control aircraft. The one at the War Eagles museum (N51TF) -- although FAA registered and "presented" as an original TEMCO -- is actually a Cavalier TF-51.

There are two Cavalier-constructed TF-51s flying: N20TF (67-14866) and N851D (44-84745). The Cavalier mod mostly followed the TEMCO mod. I don't consider these to be "original" dual control aircraft...although there is a possibility that N20TF was built by Cavalier using an original TEMCO TF-51 fusleage.

Every other TF-51 currently flying is what I'd call an "aftermarket conversion". The Square One-restored/modified aircraft (for example "Tempus Fugit" and "Miss Velma" -- there are numerous others) also generally follow the TEMCO design template for the dual control conversion. Others have various levels of adherence to the "original" design. Even those two most recent Square One modifications have a differently shaped canopy than the TEMCOs or the Cavaliers.

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