Digging into the archives

[skymstr02]

Is it the one at Pensacola or Lone Star? Or are those the new builds from Texas Airplane factory?

Lone Stars F3F is a TAF product.

[Chris Brame]

Hi Chris,

Yes, that's a TBM wing behind Earl - note the mounts for the rocket rails - it was one of a set that he told me he owned and was going to use to put together a display aircraft, but I guess that never happened. This wasn't taken at the VAM, though; it was at the Anoka, MN airport where we had gone to trade some parts with Ingemar Holm.

As to the Buffalo - if it existed at all - the impression I gleaned from him and his friends was that it was buried under the floor of a barn in Beloit, Wisconsin. Who knows...

PeterA has an explanation for the dual markings on the Buchons

"I think this is what has happened here. The Spanish repainted all the Buchons in German 'film' markings for filming in Spain. This for the German airfield scenes and the A-A stuff with the Heinkels. There was only one Spitfire sent to Spain. Most of the Buchons were then flown to the UK for the dogfight scenes.

Latterly a few Buchons were painted in full with the RAF scheme to fill in as background in A-A formation shots. I suspect the paint used was just a temporary wash, that was never washed off, but quickly showed its quality when exposed to Chicago weather.

I always thought the Larry Matt and John Lowe were the owners of the Buchons in Chicago/Mundelein. The Spitfires came via Bill Francis who worked on the film. "

This might be the reason and the rest an Earl story. It's been a long time ago.

the Buffalo was not at the museum.

Steve

[JDK]

Re-'RAF' Buchons: Basically the same as I said on the second page of the thread in two posts, although I'm not sure either way about the temporary paint wear issue. I didn't believe that any Buchons left the filming in RAF colours for 'ours' and 'theirs' political reasons; I'd assumed therefore that the RAF colours were washable and removed; the alternative being another layer of Luftwaffe paint was applied over them, which was to later wear off, which seems unlikely to me. My assumption that none were left in RAF colours may be wrong.

The other alternative explanation might be filming for From He11 to Victory (Originally Contro 4 bandiere - 1979) I mentioned before - it's a terrible mongrel film, with bits cut from everywhere. Gary Brown and I watched it many years ago together, and we agreed that the Buchon in RAF colours, seen once, briefly, wasn't an out-take from the Battle of Britain film - again we might be wrong. Where it's from remains a mystery - this IMDB link gives a few clues. ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079019/#comment ) Could one of Earl's Buchon's have been used in another film between the Battle of Britain and arriving at the museum?

The photo of the 'P-51' Buchon is the one I referred to there owned by my colleague Gary Brown - I think it was originally an Aviation Photo News shot, and yes the reason they were created was the ever-present P-51s weren't available in Europe then.

Great thread!

[garbs]

OK - unfortunately that's all I have from Mundalein except for these two:





No F7-U's or Brewsters evident in either

Here begins the CAF 1975 thread then; please let me know if I should start a new one.

I have 45 counting the 'teaser':



This is N5546N in its cilil livery, before the lengthy restoration at Harlingen.

I'll start with the display aircraft, I don't have N-numbers on any of these:



Possibly N47DD?



Maybe N691S? I'm sure I have this one in the CAF 1981 set.

And a couple more:





This one's easy (N25Y)









Let me know

[garbs]

Here's some of the active planes that were on the ramp back in '75:







The first one is N47DC which I believe is now at the Air Zoo. I can't read the others but I assume they are "N47D A-F".

Texas Raiders and Fifi





Not sure if anyone is interested in the ramp queens. I believe many have been posted in an earlier thread;

[Steve Nelson]

That pic of Texas Raiders is interesting. Looks like she had a diagonal tail stripe at some point (similar to Sentimental Journey) that was painted out.

SN

[bdk]

Latterly a few Buchons were painted in full with the RAF scheme to fill in as background in A-A formation shots. I suspect the paint used was just a temporary wash, that was never washed off, but quickly showed its quality when exposed to Chicago weather.

I always thought the Larry Matt and John Lowe were the owners of the Buchons in Chicago/Mundelein. The Spitfires came via Bill Francis who worked on the film."

DaveM2 published a photo of mine in Classic Wings showing the last HA-1112 at Victory Air Museum with the roundels plainly visible on one wing (the wings were probably all mixed up when they were reassembled). Either the German markings weathered off to display the English ones underneath, or the wing left the filming still in English markings. If it was in fact temporary paint, I wish my house was painted in that stuff because it was probably 10 years old when I photographed it.

The last one at VAM was John Lowe's, John had another one at home in his garage that I saw (but did not photograph- bare metal and still had the hole in the fuselage where the Spanish had hacked out the radios) and Larry had one in his backyard as well that he had painted up in glossy German markings and was working on. Larry also had a Spitfire fuselage in his backyard (the one that had been sitting in the crate at VAM?) and had been trading parts with Rudy Frasca.

[Dan K]

I imagine these are some of the ones that now surround the EAA Museum at OSH (or are parked on the western edge of "Fightertown" in the Warbird area).

Skyraider Bu# 122811 is the only surviving AD-3. The Navy took it back around 2002, had a little cosmetic work done, and mounted it outside at some Naval supply base in Philadelphia.

Does anyone know how the Buchons got to VAM, I always thought they were trucked in but they might have been flown in

Steve

[JDK]

Not sure if anyone is interested in the ramp queens.

It's all good! Keep 'em coming.

DaveM2 published a photo of mine in Classic Wings showing the last HA-1112 at Victory Air Museum with the roundels plainly visible on one wing (the wings were probably all mixed up when they were reassembled). Either the German markings weathered off to display the English ones underneath, or the wing left the filming still in English markings. If it was in fact temporary paint, I wish my house was painted in that stuff because it was probably 10 years old when I photographed it.

Thanks bdk. As I said above I don't buy the washable paint remaining (under Luftwaffe?) colours theory. It seems awful complicated, or very tough 'temporary' paint - which bdk's highlighted. As I said above, again...

Re-'RAF' Buchons: Basically the same as I said on the second page of the thread in two posts, although I'm not sure either way about the temporary paint wear issue. I didn't believe that any Buchons left the filming in RAF colours for 'ours' and 'theirs' political reasons; I'd assumed therefore that the RAF colours were washable and removed; the alternative being another layer of Luftwaffe paint was applied over them, which was to later wear off, which seems unlikely to me. My assumption that none were left in RAF colours may be wrong.

The other alternative explanation might be filming for From He11 to Victory (Originally Contro 4 bandiere - 1979) I mentioned before - it's a terrible mongrel film, with bits cut from everywhere. Gary Brown and I watched it many years ago together, and we agreed that the Buchon in RAF colours, seen once, briefly, wasn't an out-take from the Battle of Britain film - again we might be wrong. Where it's from remains a mystery - this IMDB link gives a few clues. ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079019/#comment ) Could one of Earl's Buchon's have been used in another film between the Battle of Britain and arriving at the museum?

The photo of the 'P-51' Buchon is the one I referred to there owned by my colleague Gary Brown - I think it was originally an Aviation Photo News shot, and yes the reason they were created was the ever-present P-51s weren't available in Europe then.

Great thread!

I've never seen another photo of a Buchon in RAF colours off the Spitfire Productions bases; except that this site, as bdk's shown, here, much later. I've also never seen another shot of the From He11 to Victory Buchon - if there was a Buchon in RAF colours for another film pirated by the FHTV makers. I don't really have a credible theory, whatever version one prefers there's a fair amount of forcing the facts to fit...

[Randy Wilson]

Garbs - the FM-2 Wildcat in pre-war Ranger markings was N681S. It was repainted as Butch O'Hare's aircraft while I sponsored and flew it in the early 1990s. It was lost a few years ago.

Randy

[Jake Fendermen]

The Victory Air Museum photos sure brought back some memories. The silver T-6G was mine and I was removing the paint when the photos were taken. It was later painted to a G (yellow markings) paint scheme in the Polidori hanger the following spring. Chris......I have almost the same picture of Earl taken at Ingamar's hanger, but on a different trip. Earl was wheeling and dealing for that wing, but the deal never came off. When I was there I rode with Earl and Alex, the newspaper photographer guy who was always blowing things up at VAM. Ingamar flew one of the TORA Kate topedo planes to many air shows. My G model (the first T-6G, 49-2897) was sold in 1984 and I then purchased a D model from Ray Stutzman. All in all I owned T-6's for over 31 years. My last take off out of VAM in a T-6 was on 9/24/82 some 26 years ago. It was like doing carrier ops, but without the hook. "Those were the days". Keep the pictures coming.

Jake Fendermen

[daveymac82c]

Hey, I thought sooo.... That "Hudson" is Lockheed Lodestar CF-TCY, which is now owned by the Canadian Museum of Flight at Langley, BC. Right now it's at Abbotsford Airport with the University of the Fraser Valley Aerospace School receiving a major cosmetic restoration by the airframes students.

Sadly, after these pictures were taken, and I assume a few years later the airplane had it's wings sawed off, before the CMF acquired it.

I'm hoping to go see CF-TCY sometime in the near future and will report on its progress.

Cheers,

David

P.S. CF-TCY never flew with the RCAF or RAF, but was always a Trans-Canada Airlines or Government Canada airplane. So, though the paint job looks cool, it's not representative of the airplanes history.

[JDK]

Hey, I thought sooo.... That "Hudson" is Lockheed Lodestar CF-TCY, which is now owned by the Canadian Museum of Flight at Langley, BC. Right now it's at Abbotsford Airport with the University of the Fraser Valley Aerospace School receiving a major cosmetic restoration by the airframes students.

Sadly, after these pictures were taken, and I assume a few years later the airplane had it's wings sawed off, before the CMF acquired it.

I'm hoping to go see CF-TCY sometime in the near future and will report on its progress.

Hi David - check your timings... Earlier in the thread:

The Lodestar had things cut for transport and it was bolted back together with angle iron. It is visible on top of the horizontal in your pics.

We also had a discussion about the (now-) Chicago Stuka and its history and colours.

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... hp?t=19089