HA-1112-M1L-Buchon's

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:26 pm

The colours debate seems to have been covered ~hem hem~ but here's a few glosses...

Augsburgeagle wrote:

I am bit biased when it comes to buchons as 109's, lets face the facts here the last chance we had to see a real 109 flying as original as it gets was Black 6 and those days are gone.

Pity no-one's told Paul Allen with his 109E for instance. Or Ed Russell.

It's great that there are a few genuine 109s out there, as well as Buchóns and hybrids.

Quote:

25 original German airframes went to Spain, plus a few that landed and were interned. None are known to have survived, despite every other Buchon owner saying they happen to have one of the original 25.

You old cynic, Dave.

The Israeli's used Avias - nothing to do with the Buchón, so no, the colours would be just as 'wrong' as Luftwaffe schemes.

The Canadian Aviation Museum's Buchón:

The French Buchón at Le Bourget.

Augsburgeagle · **Joined:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:17 am **Posts:** 112

JDK wrote:

The colours debate seems to have been covered ~hem hem~ but here's a few glosses...

Augsburgeagle wrote:

I am bit biased when it comes to buchons as 109's, lets face the facts here the last chance we had to see a real 109 flying as original as it gets was Black 6 and those days are gone.

Pity no-one's told Paul Allen with his 109E for instance. Or Ed Russell.

It's great that there are a few genuine 109s out there, as well as Buchóns and hybrids.

Although excellent restorations they are not on the same level of originality, unless another captured machine is made airworthy then you won't see that sort of originality flying again unfortunately.

JDK · **Posted:** Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:41 pm

Augsburgeagle wrote:

Although excellent restorations they are not on the same level of originality as black six.

Noooo... Perhaps not. But then they're hardly bodge jobs either. I'd say they are well above the bar in terms of accuracy and fidelity to the original. Black 6 had a lot of the aircraft's primary structure; those opportunities are gone, I agree - but lets not be quite so hard-line, just enjoy them all and acknowledge the differences.

Cheers,

Augsburgeagle · **Joined:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:17 am **Posts:** 112

JDK wrote:

Augsburgeagle wrote:

Although excellent restorations they are not on the same level of originality as black six.

Noooo... Perhaps not. But then they're hardly bodge jobs either. I'd say they are well above the bar in terms of accuracy and fidelity to the original. Black 6 had a lot of the aircraft's primary structure; those opportunities are gone, I agree - but lets not be quite so hard-line, just enjoy them all and acknowledge the differences.

Cheers,

Absolutely! It is incredible to see any 109s flying!

It's all academic anyway, if I had a G10 I would make sure I use accurate luftwaffe Gloss blue emulsion as much as possible, it's wipe clean you see!
:twisted:

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:03 am

JDK wrote:

Black 6 had a lot of the aircraft's primary structure; those opportunities are gone, I agree...

I've just been reminded (by a certain restorer who knows) that the entire primary structure (not just 'a lot') of Black 6 was original, which could be misunderstood in my original post.
Cheers,

Augsburgeagle · **Joined:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:17 am **Posts:** 112

No problems, now you can see why I regard it as so unique! If only we could see her and the 410 running again, to imagine what the 410 must sound like running is enough to drive me nuts,

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:27 am

errr... I was well aware, having talked to several members of the restoration team and followed the project's latter stages.

Me410? What's one of them, then? :lol:

Augsburgeagle · **Joined:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:17 am **Posts:** 112

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 6:11 am

Augsburgeagle wrote:

Why would you tease me in such a way!!! Great photo and I am green with envy. Well at least I get to speak to one of the restoration team on a daily basis, or dad as I like to call him

Well tell dad from me he's still got a lot to be proud of with Black 6.

It was still looking good (if not as active as we like) when I saw it at Hendon a month or two back.

Augsburgeagle · **Joined:** Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:17 am **Posts:** 112

Thanks for that, would you mind telling me where it is currently in the hall, I think it has been pushed into a corner recently? Last time we went to see it we were a bit concerned about public access, especially as some damage had been done by someone whilst in the museum, very sad to see.

Willy · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:12 am

The c/s looks authentic to me, matching the one at Le Bourget which is reported to have kept the c/s worn on delivery to the museum.

Regards

Willy

Django · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:31 am

JDK · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:36 am

Django wrote:

As much as WIXers go nutty for authenticity, I think that the general public could care less about the Spanish Air Force. You could argue that they SHOULD be educated about it, but in the end, it would take an owner committed to telling their story. Which would be tough when the Luftwaffe is so much more attractive.

For me personally, I don't know that I could fly one in SAF colors anymore than I could bring myself to fly a Mustang in postwar livery. It's just not my focus.

Isn't this meant to be in the schemes thread? That's where I'll comment anyways.

BTW, the answer to Augsbergeagle's Black 6 question is in the Black 6 thread.

Cheers,

Django · **Posted:** Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:01 am

There's another thread? Sorry...

EXPAT0149 · **Joined:** Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:44 am **Posts:** 163

A couple of Avia's from Kbely
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/e ... ELY105.jpg
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e97/e ... ELY109.jpg

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