Who Qualifies As A War Hero?

[michaelharadon]

Would a hero have handled the MIA issue as McCain has?

[mustangdriver]

I define a hero as someone willing to lay their life down to fight for what is right. McCain flew A-1's and A-4's in the Navy. I would say that flying attack aircraft in broad daylight over Vietnam is a pretty heroic thing to do. When his father became the commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater the Vietnamese offered him an out. All he had to do was turn his back on his country. He refused and stayed in prison getting beatings and tortured. He fought for what is right.

It's not right to say this man is not a hero. Flying combat is enough to make a hero for me. Whether he should be president or not is something that all Americans can fight about. I try to stay out of politics.

[Bluedharma]

I don't think anyone can cheapen the service of those who protect us.
It has value to me.

The word Hero is really only an opinion of someone you hold in high regard.
The problem is when others do not hold that same high regard.
This time of year with all the "events" going on in the States, people try to push their opinions on you.

I think some people are asking only for clarification... why would some be classified in high regard while others do not?
Why would our opinion be wrong and others right? What is the standard for being a hero? Why does there appear to be a double standard in some cases?

I think you can only say is that a hero to you is really only a reflection of your opinion...
Everything else you hear on TV and the radio is just trying to civilize you.

Is what you hear sometimes hypocritical? Yes. It is only someone elses opinion. You can't put logic to opinion.
Heroes can be found in those you admire and value... just ignore those who try to push their beliefs on you.

[Bill Greenwood]

Blueharma, If we were looking at any heroes, not just war ones, I would definitely agree that Dr.King would be at the top. He not only put his life at stake, and lost it, for a just cause, but even more than those we admire for their actions in combat, King did it without resorting to any kind of violence, and by taking the high road. That's really amazing considering how evil his opposition was.

Mustangdriver, where do you find anyone here who said McCain "is not a hero"? I don't see that anywhere. If you can find it in anything I wrote, please furnish the quote for me.

[sgt hawk]

I served, and I certainly do not consider myself one, but I was lucky enough to serve with a whole lot of them, and some are still living!

It's not right to say this man is not a hero.

Mustangdriver, where do you find anyone here who said McCain "is not a hero"? I don't see that anywhere. If you can find it in anything I wrote, please furnish the quote for me.

I have to agree with Bill G., no one said McCain is not a war hero here in this thread. But I can clearly see that Bill G. is treading on thin political water. Be careful!! ...

[mtpopejoy]

I have to agree with Bill G., no one said McCain is not a war hero here in this thread. But I can clearly see that Bill G. is treading on thin political water. Be careful!! ...

more like trolling on political water!

[Broken-Wrench]

Libero Della Piana: on MLK and his legacy


MLK was a her with the communist part usa!

Archive Struggles African-American Equality
Author: Libero Della Piana, New York State Chair
First published 02/08/2008 14:43 by {article_topic_desc}



As part of a series of Black History Month conversations, Libero Della Piana, Chair of the New York State Communist Party, speaks about the radical legacy of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Della Piana references King's famous "Beyond Vietnam" Speech made at The Riverside Church in Manhattan on April 4, 1967 where he called for "revolution of values" and an end to the U.S. war in Vietnam. He also refers to King's final book "Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community?" which called for a guaranteed national income.

[michaelharadon]

Not to hijack the thread, but anyone with an interest in Dr. King and/or the social conditions of the '60's would really enjoy reading his "Letter From Birmingham Jail". It's beautiful.

[muddyboots]

EASY. The ones who didn't come back.

Rest were just doing their job. Ask any of them... that's usually the answer they give.

Bang on.

But Bill's right. I think Bill is looking more for a definition:
For the MOH
conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in an action against an enemy of the United States…"

A hero (from Greek ἥρως hērōs[1]), in Greek mythology and folklore, was originally a demigod[2], the offspring of a mortal and a deity,[3] their cult being one of the most distinctive features of ancient Greek religion.

Later, hero (male) and heroine (female) came to refer to characters (fictional or historical) that, in the face of danger and adversity or from a position of weakness, display courage and the will for self-sacrifice – that is, heroism – for some greater good, originally of martial courage or excellence but extended to more general moral excellence.

I think McCain qualifies. I hate his guts, but he is indeed a hero. And honestly, a hero can later perform acts of incredible evil and still be a hero. He's just a fallen hero.

We dont normally think of Tim McVey as a hero. but he earned a bronze star with the V on it during Desert storm. He preformed heroic acts in teh service of his country. Hero. And then he performed an act of incredible evil after he grew to feel his counrty had abandoned him: fallen hero.
Who was the fighter pilot turned politician who was convicted of bribe taking not to long ago The ace? Fallen hero.

McCain offered his life in the service of his country. That alone doesn't make him a hero in my book. Everybody should do it. It's in my opinion one of the basic qualificatios for being a citizen: that you act in the best interests of your nation, even when it will hurt you. Taxes are not heroic. But we all should pay them in order that the nation do well. Not the government: the nation.

THose who don't serve out of laziness or cowardice or just because they don't like the idea are not military heros. But like MLK, they migh tstill be heroes, even, as BW pointed out, they do things they believe to be in the common interest which many polilticains have painted as not in the natinal interest.

McCain went through some brutal things as a pilot and later a prisoner. He was shot down and he was in tha fire. But those things don't make him a hero. They were not actions aboce and beyond the call of duty. And every citizen owes duty to his nation. After he was shot down, I believe he DID perform above and beyond the call of duty. I don't even believe his turning down an offer to go home made him heroic. He was made he offer soley due to his fathers position. He didn't deserve to go home before other men who had been there longer. There was an order to who went home: longer terms in the camp meant earlier release.

What makes him a hero is that he refused to sign a statement condemning the US for a long time. It cost him a good deal of torture. He stood up for his fellow inmates when it was not his duty to do so, beyond the common duty of humanity. The price he paid for it was far beyond the call of duty. He knowingly sacrificed of himself tha others might live. THAT is a hero.

I'm not sure I have ever heard of any other actions he undertook which qualify him as a hero, if you remove the service to his country thing. Living through a random accident (being shot down) does not make you a hreo. It makes you a luck sumbitch. Turning down an offer you don't deserve doesn't make you a hero. It makes you honorable. Only when you perform an act of selfless sacrifice above and beyond what any citizen should do are you a hero.

There was a guy who ran through fire and grabbed me and pulled me out of a very bad place once. It was not his job to do it, he was simply unwilling to see me die without trying. HE is my hero.

Last edited by muddyboots on Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[muddyboots]

From the description for the Off Topic section:

"ANY political discussions in any other forum will be deleted and the user suspended. I have had it with the politically motivated comments."

From the Rules of Conduct section:

"It has become evident that discussions of a political nature cannot be done in an objective fashion about this subject that people are so passionate about. So, unfortunately, political discussion is prohibited as of March 19, 2007. You have been warned, so anybody who posts a political post or baits a political discussion will be banned for 30 days, repeat offenders will be banned permanently."

Seems pretty clear to me...

So a discussion about what makes a man a hero is a politcal discussion? I don't believe so. A political discussion would be this:

I think John McCain is a liar and a cheater and possibly a thief depending on who you listen to. Don't vote for him.

or

Kerry is a pompous blueblood who didn't deserve his awards and is using his rich wife to pay for his election. Don't vote for him

Not that I am espousing either. It's not appropriate on this board and I don't happen to believe either of those things.

We have had discussions about half the "characters" who ever served. Pappy Boyington and Jack's snarling condemnation comes to mind. Kerry and McCain are both individuals of interest, and good examples of the question in mind. That's not political. That's interesting.

Last edited by muddyboots on Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

[fotobass]

If everyone can take a deep breath, I think there's a very interesting discussion to be had here.

I think Bill's raised an interesting series of questions, and to be honest I think there might not be such a heated response if others had raised them, but let's try this if anyone's interested.

I believe John McCain to be a hero. I believe so primarily because of his decisions to put others before him by refusing the early release, even knowing that he would suffer for it. An American hero, certainly, but his actions would be considered to be heroic in any uniform.

WIth this in mind, would an enemy combatant be considered to be a hero as well under opposite circumstances, whether it be a suicidal diversionary action to cover his comrades, or something else?

And let me be clear here...I strongly believe that we, as responsible adults, can have this discussion without it turning sour. I'm genuinely interested in the opinions of others here, especially the veterans. I never served, so you have a perspective that I don't.

On the other hand, if this thing continues to spiral, shoot it and let's move on.

Oh, yeah...P-38 B-17 P-51. Warbird related.

[Bluedharma]

If everyone can take a deep breath, I think there's a very interesting discussion to be had here.
...
I strongly believe that we, as responsible adults, can have this discussion without it turning sour.
I'm genuinely interested in the opinions of others here, especially the veterans. I never served, so you have a perspective that I don't.
...

Great statement. Ditto.

[muddyboots]

*slaps bluedharma and scowls*

VOTE GREEN!

[Django]

Interesting counterpoint there. CAN the opposing side have heroes? How can they? In the context of branding someone a hero, it usually depends on the context of the event.