Whats up with Wagstaff at Oskosh

[mustangdriver]

First off it was an Active runway. A corporate jet had departed around 15 minutes prior. Second, an open or a closed runway is still an FAA movement area, and unless a LOA exists, you can't use it to drive your car across it. I am a huge fan of Patty. I really am. But you can't change it was not a good thing to do. The article that I refer to was in one of the newspapers in Oshkosh. I read it in my room while I was still up there. I can't remember if it was the Northwestern or a similar small newspapers like that.

[Tom]

FAA movement area? Unless an LOA exists? Do you have any idea what you are talking about? These are actual terms used in aviation but not in this context. Not even close. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

It was, as you say, not a good thing to do.

[mustangdriver]

Ummm yeah Pretty sure the runway and taxiways are movement areas. A LOA can be ANY thing from airspace to ground based equipment and vehicles. It is anythiing that is sort of out of the norm or that may be specific to a certain airport. Atleast that is what I learned in college when I became an air traffic controller.




l. Define the responsibilities of the tower and the airport management or other authority for movement and nonmovement areas by precisely delineating the loading ramps and parking areas under the jurisdiction of the airport management or other appropriate authority. Facility AT managers may, at their discretion, exclude from the movement area those portions of the airport surface normally designated movement areas that are not visible from the tower. Consideration shall be given to the impact this may have on the movement of ground traffic. The agreement may include the following:

1. Airport management or other appropriate authority shall require, by agreement or regulation, all ground vehicles and equipment operators and personnel to obtain tower approval prior to entry onto the airport movement area and comply with control instructions issued to them while on that area. This includes those vehicles used to conduct pushback operations and shall require approval prior to moving aircraft/vehicles out of the loading ramps or parking areas onto the movement area.

2. AIrport management or other appropriate authority may also require those aircraft which will not infringe upon the movement area but will impede ingress and egress to the parking area to contact the tower for advisories prior to conducting pushback operations. State that information related to aircraft movement on the loading ramps or parking areas is advisory in nature and does not imply control responsibility.

3. At those airports where vehicles not equipped with two-way radio are permitted by the airport management or other appropriate authority to enter or cross the defined movement area at specific locations without approval from the tower, enter into an LOA with the airport management, or other appropriate authority, specifying the conditions for such operations and include the clause as follows: "The airport owner/operator covenants and expressly agrees that with regard to any liability which may arise from the operation within (area/areas), that party shall be solely and exclusively liable for the negligence of its own agents, servants, and/or employees, in accordance with applicable law, and that neither party looks to the other to save or hold it harmless for the consequences of any negligence on the part of one of its own agents, servants, and/or employees."

[mustangdriver]

Look, I am not in any way into bashing Patty, I think she is great. I met her a few times she was really nice, and is one hell of a pilot. But you can't say something like, well, they were rough on her, and security was being mean after someone does what she did. What is it wasn't Patty? Wat if it was some regular person that got lost and did this? Would we still be speaking as respectful?

[Obergrafeter]

What does the letter "L" stand for? "L" Operating Area I guess as opposed to "Letter Of Authorization" on your license. Otherwise a Waiver would be issued suspending the FARs germain to that particular activity that would have to be cancelled to conduct an airshow. Speed limit, altitude restriction, aerobatic manuver, etc.

[muddyboots]

this could ruin her career? That seems pretty insane to me. Would that DUI hurt her enough that she might not get back up?

[CAPFlyer]

A single DUI will tank 95% of all ATP's careers, so why would an aerobatic pilot be any different? As an airshow organizer, would you hire a "stunt pilot" that had a history of drinking?

Again, I still don't think that we'll get the real story until the thing goes to trial. So far we have a lot of speculation and little facts on any side but the majority of it seems to indicate that something happened, things escalated, the refusal of a sobriety test was involved, and citations were issued.

Beyond that, we're just sittin' around the hangar door chatting.

[mustangdriver]

A single DUI will tank 95% of all ATP's careers, so why would an aerobatic pilot be any different? As an airshow organizer, would you hire a "stunt pilot" that had a history of drinking?

Again, I still don't think that we'll get the real story until the thing goes to trial. So far we have a lot of speculation and little facts on any side but the majority of it seems to indicate that something happened, things escalated, the refusal of a sobriety test was involved, and citations were issued.

Beyond that, we're just sittin' around the hangar door chatting.

I 100% agree.

[muddyboots]

A single DUI will tank 95% of all ATP's careers, so why would an aerobatic pilot be any different? As an airshow organizer, would you hire a "stunt pilot" that had a history of drinking?

Holy crow. And yes, I would. If I felt that he had made a stupid mistake or was overcoming it, I certainly would. Dealt with a lot of drunks, some real, some just in pain. Not a thing I'm very afriad of, if they're working on it. But that's just me--I understand the legal issues they'd have t oplace before common sense.

[flygirl77]

First of all, I want to give some insight into the EAA grounds and this situation. The museum where the event was held is on one end of the field (no where near runway 18/36) and the Hilton hotel is closer to runway (9/27). If she “took a wrong turn” near her hotel she would have been on 9/27 which does have local and commercial traffic at all hours of the day and night. I have been going to AirVenture for 15 years and Patty has been there for many of those years if not all of them. I am very familiar with the grounds and think I would be able to know the difference between a runway and taxiway even after I had a few drinks. Now take someone who flies on that runway daily during the daily. You can not make a mistake like that unless you had a lot to drink at the open bar during an event. I also heard that she resisted arrest and hit the sheriff deputy, (of course that is rumor), but I do not think she would have been arrested and needed to be bailed out the next morning for just drunk driving.

I will say that she has some good public relation people as this news did not get out until after the event. She was not formally charged until August 6th.

[Jack Cook]

also the arresting Deputy was a girl!! A 3rd charge of speeding was also filed and the fine has been paid with a guilty/no contest plea.

[Hunter1]

I caution all you who are not 100% up to speed with the absolute facts of this incident to not assume what the outcome is going to be. I think you will find this incident will have a MUCH different outcome than the doom and gloom that most of you are foreshadowing for PWAS.

There has been quite a bit of mis-information regarding this case !

I am quickly loosing respect for many of you regarding your posts on this topic.

PWAS is one of the most professional and dedicated individuals in the airshow industry and frankly if you WERE NOT THERE, then YOU CAN NOT BE 100% SURE THAT YOU HAVE THE ABSOLUTE FACTS.

I suggest that you let PWAS, her legal team, and those that WERE THERE deal with matter with the same professionalism that Patty exhibits in her flying and daily life. This site would be much better served discussing Warbird matters that do not stray into territory that does not concern many of you.

Regards

[astixjr]

I know a great attorney who specializes in FAA law. His name is Bob Wagstaff..........

Oh, that's right. They probably know each other already. Can you imagine this phone call;

Phone Ringining.....

Bob: Hello

Patty: Hi Bob, how are things with you? Say, did you ever take the Wisconsin bar? (automatic recording in the background. "This phone call is originating from the Winnebago County Jail")

Bob:

[Jack Cook]

also the arresting Deputy was a girl!! A 3rd charge of speeding was also filed and the fine has been paid with a guilty/no contest plea

these are facts.
Not signing your name doesn't exactly bring weight to your comments

[richkolasa]

Hunter1, you nailed it. This thread is a disgrace and a joke.

Hey, did anyone hear about the warbird pilot that was arrested for attempting to kill a prominent politician? Apparently it was a P-51 driver who had just broken up with Uma Thurman and blamed the Governor!

Freakin ridiculous.

Rich