Warbird Information Exchange

Went to Oshkosh today and spent some time at the Doc booth. Now forgive me for my lack of knowledge but I was asking them about their engine situation and whether they were going to do something like the CAF is doing for FiFi. He told me that they weren't that Doc had R-3350-2 engines that were much more reliable than what FiFi had. Also he told me they had an incredible amount of cores to rebuild. So incredible was the amount that I am embarrassed to tell you what he told me. So is this true or even possible?

I know that the engines came out to Precision Airmotive here @ KPAE about 9 years or so ago direct from Wichita because I spoke with the flatbed driver who was unloading them. Where (if any where) they went to after that is a big, dark, ????

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Never heard of a -2, and I doubt he meant -CA-2 in which case I'd like to buy one if he did! I thought they were going to hang -57's...?

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~Trevor McIntyre
http://www.TrevorMcIntyre.com

Looks like a -57 to me

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~Trevor McIntyre
http://www.TrevorMcIntyre.com

So are these -57 engines the same that FiFi had? If not are they more reliable?

They are -57AM's......just like the ones FIFI has. They definitely DO have a buttload of cores...all are pretty much boat anchors from what I was told by a "member of their management" and Precision Engines. I personally saw the two engines at Precision that they sent for teardown & inspection. They were supposedly the "best two we could find out of our pile," and they were junk (but to make up for it, Precision charged them out the whazoo for the teardown...yikes!).

I've tried to talk with the Doc folks to get them on the same engine project that we are on, but Mr. Mazolini said that he was contracturally bound by Boeing to build the airplane "as original as possible, and they won't allow us to run 'those modified engines of yours'". So, I even offered the remaining decent -57 cores to him that we have. I won't get into the complete conversation there, but the bottom line is that they have bigger issues in front of them right now, like ownership issues and hangar issues.

I sincerely wish them the best of luck. We (the B-29/B-24 Squadron) have gone out of our way to help them along by recently giving them, among other things, five landing gear "V" braces and a portion of a nose section (which, admittedly, I don't know if they were able to do much with...it was kind of rough). We got an envelope of cockpit placards and some nasty comments in press releases in trade. Great deal, huh? Unfortunately, many in the Doc crew are pissed off, former CAF guys (some with good reason, some without), that continue to hold a grudge and will say dang near anything to keep folks from supporting FIFI and to only support Doc.....somewhat similar to what another organization does on occasion with another type of four engined bomber that we both operate. Man, it just gets frustrating sometimes.

Personally, I'd LOVE to see two B-29's in the air! The work I've seen done on Doc is amazing. Those guys & gals have really worked hard to make an ol' derilect a shining star. I just hope they can get it going without burning all their bridges of support on the way.

Rant over. I'm sure I'll get in some kind of hot water for posting my personal opinions again, but it won't be the first time. That's what you get for asking me my thoughts on this.

Gary

Thanks for the info. So maybe when he told me they had 16 cores it was believable after all. I have a major passion for B-29's. I am still learning though mainly by lurking around this board. Been interested in warbirds since watching B-29 frozen in time. What a waste of a plane that was. Too bad Doc won't be in the air anytime soon. It's a shame to see what a mess the whole Doc situation is, but I sure am happy to see what the CAF is doing with FiFi. While at Oshkosh yesterday I made sure to stop at Doc's booth AND Ol927 to make my donation.

Ol927 being the other ONLY flying B-24 of course.

Thanks for your donation. And I need to reiterate, I really do wish the Doc bunch good luck with their project, same as I wish that other group with the B-24, but I just get flustered sometimes with the comments coming from both camps.

Gary

I'm surprised that there is animosity between two groups that have such similar objectives. One would think that with a common goal they would find needs for each others' help.

Gary, without getting too deep in the weeds, what is the source of these, shall we say, misunderstandings you mention?

I couldn't agree more with your thoughts, Randy. I, too, was (and still am) hopeful that all of our Warbird groups could help one another. Heck, that's why I sent rare and valuable parts to the Doc bunch, to help them along. For that matter, I just sent a nosewheel tube to the Foundation that operates the other B-24, to help them out (they did pay us for it though), and it worked out great. I think that ALL Warbird musuems, foundations, collections, or whatever, should be trying to help one another out, when possible.

So, to answer your question, I really think that most of the animosity/misunderstandings stems from the past dealings with the "old" CAF. I can't tell you how many times I hear (often times on WIX) how, "The CAF did this," or "The CAF did that...to piss me off." Often times, folks have a valid complaint. Most times they don't. What I don't get is that even IF they have a valid reason for hating, leaving, or disrespecting the CAF as an organization, it boggles me as to why they seem to hold such a grudge (again, most of the time). As mentioned before, I know that many of the volunteers on Doc are former CAF B-29 Squadron folks who, for one reason or another, got their panties in twist about who-knows-what, and went over to work on the other B-29. That's great, but what often happens is that those folks sit around and bitch and complain about whatever it was that made them mad (and the stories get better every time they're told), and that just makes those other volunteers who have never even dealt with the CAF to automatically see us in a bad light. I wonder how many nicely worded conversations took place there, telling one another about the parts we gave them, or how we spent hours going over the prop control system with them, or whatever?

Deeeeeeep breaths.......counting to ten.........Okay, I digress.

Randy, I reckon that's about as "deep in the weeds" as I should go. I just wish some folks would care more about airplanes and less about pissing contests. Heck, I clearly get wrapped around the axle sometimes about certain things people say, but 99 times out of 100, I will put the Warbirds first.

As Rodney King famously said, "Can't we all just get along?"

Gary

Like I said I am pretty much a lurker here so I am kind of on the outside looking in on these matters. Between all the complaining about the CAF logos and the fighting amongst different groups this is what I see. If it wasn't for the CAF how many WWII planes would still be flying today?? I am a major fan of the CAF just for the fact that even though I was born 25 years after WWII and my children that were born anywhere from 48 to 61 yrs after WWII can enjoy seeing these planes fly.

Given there past safety record, probably a few more than there are right now..

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

Well, given the PAST safety record you're right. However, even though it's unlikely we'll continue to have a spotless record (after all, we have over 80 aircraft currently flying), I can assure you that things are NOT as they were in the days past. Trust me, I'm not defending some of the past wrecks, as they frustrate me too, but we're working on making it better.

Gary

Yup I know things have changed. I'm just a bit biased because 2 friends of mine were on the B26...

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Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.