Flying Tigers mini-series

[Dudley Henriques]

Ok find I'll talk in complete senrences
The Chinese view all US airman who fought in China in WWII has Flying Tigers and hold all in great esteme.

Oh, okay. Your statement is not quite true. There are 1.3 billion Chinese, so no such generalization COULD be true, although it could be true of the ones you know. The ones I know are not familiar with the expression "Flying Tigers" and they are well aware of the difference between the mercenaries and the official US forces. (Given their own history they have a very well developed understanding of mercenaries!). They do, however, generally appreciate the efforts of all US airmen who fought there.

August

My understanding through my exposure to the Tigers through the years has been that the term "Flying Tigers" does have a generic meaning to the Chinese, however, the reverence and respect held for the AVG by the Chinese people has been retained at such a high degree that the Chinese will differentiate from the traditional when reference is made to the term and allow focus to be brought on the AVG .
So closely associated with the AVG is the term that for all practical purposes (from my understanding anyway) the Chinese have all but given the term "Flying Tigers" to the AVG .

[warbird1]

There is a sort of truth in these things; that being that actual absolutely truthful war stories have a tendency not to carry a plot well.
The reality is that the periods between action doesn't lend itself well to a screen play. This is why producers insert characters and take license
with the story line.
For Scotty it was Tokyo Joe. For Boyington it was the "antics" of 214.
I'm afraid for the upcoming "Tigers" series, there might be a whole lot people are looking at that simply didn't happen or happened differently than that portrayed.

This is true, Dudley, but they can strike a balance between historical authenticity and downright fiction! I don't think anyone expects absolute perfection, we all realize there must be some kind of "artistic license" and fiction thrown in to keep the storyline interesting and entertaining. But, if they would just keep the overall storyline within historical parameters, all will be good.

Just look at Band of Brothers. It's an awesome account of the drive to Berlin in Europe. Even though the individual vignettes and storylines may be fiction, it is framed within the overall historical context. It is fairly accurate, yet intensely entertaining and engaging at the same time. The same can be said for "Tora, Tora, Tora". Yes, there are inaccuracies in both, but they strike a balance between historical accuracy and ficiton. This is all that I am asking for. I don't want to see just outright blatant fiction with complete disregard for history.

[Dudley Henriques]

There is a sort of truth in these things; that being that actual absolutely truthful war stories have a tendency not to carry a plot well.
The reality is that the periods between action doesn't lend itself well to a screen play. This is why producers insert characters and take license
with the story line.
For Scotty it was Tokyo Joe. For Boyington it was the "antics" of 214.
I'm afraid for the upcoming "Tigers" series, there might be a whole lot people are looking at that simply didn't happen or happened differently than that portrayed.

This is true, Dudley, but they can strike a balance between historical authenticity and downright fiction! I don't think anyone expects absolute perfection, we all realize there must be some kind of "artistic license" and fiction thrown in to keep the storyline interesting and entertaining. But, if they would just keep the overall storyline within historical parameters, all will be good.

Just look at Band of Brothers. It's an awesome account of the drive to Berlin in Europe. Even though the individual vignettes and storylines may be fiction, it is framed within the overall historical context. It is fairly accurate, yet intensely entertaining and engaging at the same time. The same can be said for "Tora, Tora, Tora". Yes, there are inaccuracies in both, but they strike a balance between historical accuracy and ficiton. This is all that I am asking for. I don't want to see just outright blatant fiction with complete disregard for history.

I totally agree with this concept, and indeed wish Hollywood would do more of it.
One thing they HAVE managed to do is to composite actual characters
by name into a script and/or portray an event that has elements of actuality for different actions compressed down into one action on the screen.
As an example, in God Is My Co Pilot", Scotty ends up getting his P40 as a "gift" from Chennault after the pilot flying it is killed but manages to belly it in on the field at Kunming. The character pilot played by Dane Clark had the name John Petach. Petach actually flew with the Tigers and was indeed killed, but he morted by staying on after the AVG was disbanded to help train the new pilots replacing the Tigers.
So Johnny Petach from Perth Amboy N.J., was in the film but portrayed
incorrectly to make the "gift" from Chennault to Scotty of the P40 more believable to the audience.
How Scott actually got use of the P40 he used on the Hump flights was not nearly as "exciting" an event as the way Warner portrayed it.

[Jack Cook]

So closely associated with the AVG is the term that for all practical purposes (from my understanding anyway) the Chinese have all but given the term "Flying Tigers" to the AVG .

To that I'd say no way way. Brad Smith (RT's) son and I have talked alot about this very subject and those are his words. He probably has more insight that most people due to his deep interest in the China Air War along with his education and profession. Unfortunately his openmindedness has caused him a lot of grief from the AVG Assoc.

and they are well aware of the difference between the mercenaries and the official US forces

careful with the M word or you'll have some angry ladies after you

[Dudley Henriques]

So closely associated with the AVG is the term that for all practical purposes (from my understanding anyway) the Chinese have all but given the term "Flying Tigers" to the AVG .

To that I'd say no way way. Brad Smith (RT's) son and I have talked alot about this very subject and those are his words. He probably has more insight that most people due to his deep interest in the China Air War along with his education and profession. Unfortunately his openmindedness has caused him a lot of grief from the AVG Assoc.

Good way to find out. Pick up the phone and call your local Chinese take out. Ask whoever answers who the Flying Tigers were. )

[Jack Cook]

Except they're from Pasadena and speak better English than I do

[Dudley Henriques]

Except they're from Pasadena and speak better English than I do

I know the feeling. My English AND Chinese are terrible.)

[k5083]

My mother-in-law lived through the war; I'll ask her. Most of the info I have so far is from my wife. I'm sure they are not as informed about what Chinese people think as Mr. Smith is, being merely Chinese people, but their views should still be of some interest.

August

[Jack Cook]

I'm sure they are not as informed about what Chinese people think as Mr. Smith is, being merely Chinese people, but their views should still be of some interest.

Poke-poke-jab-jab
My point is that Brad being the son of a AVG ace has had a insiders view of this in addition of a life spent studying of the air war in China in WWII and China society in general. BTW I asked a Chinese lady in my office what she thought of the flying tigers and she had no clue to whom I was referring

[k5083]

That really doesn't surprise me, like I said at the outset, I really don't think "Flying Tigers" is a household expression in China, apart from those who have an interest in the subject. If you probe a little deeper about US airmen based in China you might unearth some understanding. Or not; although most Chinese have positive feelings toward the US airmen to the extent they know about them, it may not be a major theme in the war for many. I can tell you that when my wife and I first discussed the AVG, almost 20 years ago, she was the one who raised the subject, noticing the box art of a P-40 model kit that I happened to have, and recited an essentially correct history of the AVG without prompting. But then, my wife was extraordinarily well educated. Anyway, she never used the words "AVG" or "Flying Tigers." It wouldn't surprise me if there are other nicknames for the AVG in China that we would find quite amusing.

August

[Jack Cook]

I thought this was interesting from a elderly Chinese lady on another forum. Seems like they're all Flying Tigers

We found a public cemetery of AVG in Kunming on April 5th, 2007. This cemetery was built in 1938. Its Original name is Kunming Air force public cemetery. Its original address is in Xiaomaju and in 1954 it was moved to Shi Tangshan in the north of Kunming. From 1938 to 1945, Chinese and American Air force sacrifices 3386 people, and more than 800 pilots were interred in the Kunming Flying Tigers public cemetery.
In April, 2008, we built a new gravestone which is 30 meters far from the public cemetery. Now we are planning to plant 3386 trees which stand for 3386 airmen. Besides, we will construct four graves before the trees, Chinese type two, American two, which represent Chinese and American Flying Tigers and set a commemorative wall which is 33.86 meter long. We will engrave 3386 heroes' names directly, back engrave the memorial speech.

[BigGrey]

They were the craziest guys, going out and partying, getting wild every night, then they'd get in these planes ... "

Sounds more like the instructors who taught me to fly.

I just hope they don't hire Captain Incredible as the technical advisor.

Les

[Jerry O'Neill]

So, is there going to be a mini series on the Flying Tigerrs or what!?
This has got a bit of the thread title and I'd like to know more!
jerry

[AviaS199]

I don't think anyone expects absolute perfection, we all realize there must be some kind of "artistic license" and fiction thrown in to keep the storyline interesting and entertaining. But, if they would just keep the overall storyline within historical parameters, all will be good.

I agree. I'm a writer (of sorts), and understand how "real life" doesn't always translate into good storytelling. Yet there are examples of films and TV series that were historically and technically accurate AND edge-of-your-seat dramatic. Some of my favorite examples: "Apollo 13," "Tora," and the miniseries "Danger UXB," among others.

Maybe this is just my writer's ego flaring up, but I think the root of the problem is laziness. Most (non-flying) writers and directors just don't take the time and trouble to learn their subject, and instead take the quick and easy route. "Pearl Harbor," for example. Two guys in love with the same woman. Gee, I wonder how long it took them to think of that? I really groaned when I saw the film "Dark Blue World," about the Czech pilots who flew for the RAF. The real-life story is fascinating. The movie's plot? Two guys in love with the same woman ...

"Black Sheep" may be the prime example of laziness. According to the producers and writers, Boyington drank heavily because he was a two-fisted macho Marine fighter pilot. I've often wondered what sort of film you could make if you told the truth, showing Boyington as a hopeless, pathetic alcoholic, who was driven to drink by any number of personal demons. I'm willing to bet it would be a lot more interesting than the TV series.

If I could give one bit of advice to the guys producing the new Flying Tigers project, it would be this: Read Jack Newkirk's letter to his sister. Then build the story around that.

[k5083]

Another problem is that if there are airplanes in the movie, airplane buffs tend to have fairly lax standards for good storytelling. For example, "Tora" has been cited as a compelling story a couple of times on this thread, but I have never heard of anyone who is not an aviation or WWII buff who actually liked it. Certainly it didn't do well in theatres, and for good reason as it contained a lot of wooden acting and strained scenes to establish historical plot points.

Speaking of Jack Newkirk, I saw there is an article on him this month in, I think it was, Aviation History magazine that I leafed through on the newsstand. Pretty terrible article, actually, with no new information and no mention at all of the whole controversy with the media buildup of Scarsdale Jack, being demoted from 25 kills to 7, and so forth. The one piece of info new to me is that he was reinterred in Scarsdale and rests in the churchyard where my son went to preschool last year a few blocks from my house, so I may drop by and pay him a visit this weekend. As a Scarsdale resident I have wanted for years to do a depiction of his airplane but, alas, it seems no documentation has ever come to light of the specific markings on an aircraft he flew.

August