Fire Bomber Shortage?

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:28 pm

We've seen enough, fairly recent retirements of fire bombers within the past 7 years. My question is, how much has this hindered the fire bomber fleet of today? Is there plans in the future to compensate the shortage? I've heard good things about the A-10 "Fire Hog" and other projects, but nothing really substantial. Does anybody have an annual list of active water bombers in North America to show?

Any help would be appreciated.

BCalmes · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:02 pm

Quote:

Does anybody have an annual list of active water bombers in North America to show?

Take a look at http://www.airtanker.org/

Mike Bates · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:03 pm

I don't see the Air Force letting go of any A-10's anytime soon. The one's in the bone yard are a valuable parts source. Many have had their wings removed and rebuilt for active aircraft.

Mike

davem · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:12 pm

I hear that the Martin Mars are heading to Shasta County to fight some major fires in California. They seem destined to stay in the firefighting role for the long run.

RNDMTRS4EVR · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:53 pm

Warbird Kid;
Boy I could go on and on about this subject, the simple answer is YES there is a big shortage of LATs (large air tankers) Back in the late 80's early 90's there were about 60 LATs on contract by the late 90's there were about 45. We now have about 20 LATs. If we get a series of fires going there’s not enough air tankers to go around. Back when I used to work in and around the business air tankers were assigned to a tanker base in a region, and every region had X amount of assets available to them for when they had fires. You could also call for more air tankers from other regions if the need arose. Well today with the little amount of LATs, the aircraft are assigned to an administrative base. But they are usually not there, but where the forecasted hot spots for fires are at. Now as far as new equipment in development, the A-10 won't happen, Dessert storm gave it a second lease on life with the Air Force. Neptune was looking at tanking the Dash-8 but that plan is kind of on hold last I heard. Minden Air was working with another company in tanking a BAE-146 smurf jet but how far along that is I do not know. Aero Union was working on tanking another P-3 but it was suppose to be flying two fire seasons ago. Tanker 10LLC has one DC-10 tanked and CalFire is the only customer so far, there is rumor that they are tanking another DC-10. Evergreen tanked a B-747 but they did all there test work and the dog and ponies shows and have yet to be called to drop on a fire. There is rumor that the airplane had some issues during the drop phase of flight, BUT these are RUMORS. The big problem is the Forest Service will not pay what it takes to operate newer equipment, and they won't help with the development cost either. You see as an air tanker operator your customer base is pretty darn narrow you have the Forest Service, BLM, and State agencies to contract with. You have to modify the airplanes pretty heavily so they are not much use to do any other type of work, unless you want to spend lots of money converting them back and forth. But what other kind of work could you do with your aircraft during the off season? You ask some Forest Service higher ups and all they want is an LAT fleet of P-3's. I worked with a guy who had the financial backing to go and tank CV-580s to use here in the states, but when they approached the Forest Service about it they stated they would most likely not contract the aircraft because they were twin engine and not four. He told them that the aircraft are working out great up in Canada so why not here? They stated that “they did not care what happened in Canada” in a round about way. Like I said I could go on and on as could any other Tanker guy who’s been in the business. The one positive thing the Forest Service did do this year was award five year contracts instead of one year contracts, this will allow some operators to maybe dump more cash flow into a new type of aircraft knowing they still have a contract in the coming years. I think I answered your question in a round about way

Scott..........

ZeamerB17 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:10 pm

Is there a really comprehensive chock full 'o' photos book on fire bombers available that anyone knows of?

Warbird Kid · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:44 pm

Scott,

Like the reply. Seems pretty much what i was expecting. I dont know what, but something has to be done in this situation! I mean c'mon, money can be made here, somehow.

Chris

RareBear · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:58 pm

Last I heard the Evergreen 747 Supertanker has had its firefighting equipment removed and has been returned to a freighter role. Not sure how long it would take to revert it back to firefighting.

Walt

Glen · **Posted:** Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:31 pm

Blackhawks were carring Drop Buckets today around the Fort Hood Area ! I saw at least two Blackhawk's and one Shunuck carrig water to a pretty bad Grass fire South of Fort Hood Proper ! TBC no dought :roll:

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