1930's vintage stuff

Ztex · **Posted:** Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:42 am

I found these pictures in a group of large black and white negatives that my father took in the late 1920's and early 1930's.
They scanned fairly well..

Thought they were interesting.
The first is NC13W, the fourth Lockheed 8A "Sirius", built in 1930.
The photo was in a group of others taken in Southern California so I am assuming that this one is as well. Anyone recognize the hanger in the back ground? It appears to say "S-A-S Wright Authorized Service and Parts S-A-S" on it.

The other aircraft I have not yet identified. I have a print of it..that scanned much better than the negative. It says Gray' s Flying School, Amarillo, TX on the side...

Anyone know the type?

gilt · **Posted:** Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:51 am

Zane-

The high-wing monoplane is a Hisso powered Ryan M-1.

Tom-

k5083 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:54 am

I think it's a Ryan M-1.

EDIT: Darn, I lost the speed-typing contest!

August

Ztex · **Posted:** Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:26 pm

Dang you guys are fast!

Anyone have any information as to registrations on these? Aerofiles indicates that 16 were built.

Thanks guys!

Z

visaliaaviation · **Joined:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:01 pm **Posts:** 353

I was going to post a link to the M-1 at the Seatle Museum of Flight, but for what ever reason I can't get the sight to come up. Will try again later.

ANYWAY, helped crew the Museum's Hisso M-1 when it was flown by its restorer, Ty Sundstrom, in Exceter CA, some years back. You haven't lived until you've had to manhandle a large tail skid equiped airplane! One gains a whole new appreciation for what it took to operate and fly back in the late 20's.

And the Hisso never sounds like it's turning fast enough to get the ship airbourne! On landing the flat fabric sides of the square fuselage bang like a large drum as the skid bounces over rocks and bits of taxi way it crosses! Even the bungee gear clacks loudly whenever it bounces, allowing the axels to snap to full travel. An experience of effort, sights and sounds stimulating a wide range of emotions!

BTW- the Museum's M-1 is believed to have been flown by Lindbergh, and is also Ryan M-1 No.1, some 26 airframes infront of The Spirit of St. Louis.

k5083 · **Posted:** Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:24 am

Wasn't it Lindy's experience with the M-1 that led him to choose Ryan to make the NYP?

August

Baldeagle · **Posted:** Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:20 pm

I'm the world's high time Ryan M-1 pilot (and world famous in Wisconsin...), spent 6 years building up this one, finished in 2001:

Lower photo by Nigel Hitchman

Flew it for about 140 hours, and it's now at the Historic Aircraft Restoration Museum in St. Louis: http://www.historicaircraftrestorationmuseum.org/

Love that photo of the one missing its wheel

visaliaaviation · **Joined:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:01 pm **Posts:** 353

Bald eagle,

Is yours a restoration or a repro? I see nothig wrong with either. You have one and I don't! Ty has always said he'd like to build a radial reproduction because he loved the way the hisso variant flew.

The wing of the Spirit has the same wing rib but the spars are quite different, larger and, much lighter than the M-1's. there's no way the M-1's spars could carry that fuel load, simply by extending 5' at each tip.

Lindbergh chose Ryan as a fall back position and for propaganda purposes. Can't say more, at this time, but we've got the documentation. As far as how much M-1 is in the Spirit? It's now fairly conclusive that the Spirit was derived from Ryan M-3 C which had newr spar design and fuselage frame is dimensionally identical. Differencecs occur in a few diagonals of the front cockpit/fuel bay.

Part of the myth is that Lindbergh chose to locate the pilot's location aft of main fuel tank because it was "safer". While it may have worked out that way, it should be noted that ALL Ryan's of the M series, including the Spirit, had the pilot in the exact same position. The fuel HAD to go where it did. Pilot's location could not be anywhere else using the basic M fuselage designs. When the Wright j-5 was adapted to the M-1, it used the same engine mount (and distance from "firewall") as used on Spirit, despite latter being 2' longer in aft fuselage.

Ztex · **Posted:** Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:48 pm

Great!

I saw your airplane on it's stop in Ft. Worth with the air tour!

I am trying to figure the registration for this Ryan. I have made some contacts on other sites and they are seeking the info as well. If there were only a dozen or so built it should not be too hard to track this one down...if there is data for the registrations...

I have scanned this picture at higher resolution and still can't see the number clearly...

Baldeagle · **Posted:** Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:59 pm

My old M-1 is a restoration starting with the fuselage of one of the Mexican revolution airplanes, which was later owned by Al Menasco and was flown by Lindbergh in June 1928 when Menasco owned it.

The Gray's Flying School Ryan could be an M-2, they were basically identical, so you might look for M-2 numbers also.

k5083 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:50 am

I saw your bird at OSH 01 Baldeagle, a real beauty and one of the highlights of that week for me.

Ztex, try looking at the neg with a strong loupe or a 10x microscope. It still might not be legible, but you'll have a better chance than with a scan.

August

Ztex · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:50 pm

August,

Tried that...it is really no better than the scan...at first glance it looks to be NC2? or NC3?
I dunno...

Thanks for the suggestion though!

visaliaaviation · **Joined:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:01 pm **Posts:** 353

Checked with Ty Sundstrom and he thinks the M-1 in question could be one of the Mexican machines which were returned to Ryan. Is there a higher res image available?

Could the airplane with the missing wheel be Baldeagle's restoration??? Interesting possibility!

Very cool on several counts. The photos of his M-1 in flight are terrific!

On a side note, I got to examined the pieces of the original M-1's spars. they were complete, other than being shattered. Original pencil lines for the rib locations, as well as the glue fractures, clearly indicate a 1" span difference between sides. At this point we believe it was simply a building/rebuilding error, which occurred back in the day.

visaliaaviation · **Joined:** Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:01 pm **Posts:** 353

Don't know if this will work...

http://us.mc459.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showM ... ABdM1Iju1A,

should show images of Ty's M-1

The Inspector · **Posted:** Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:35 am

It's BURBANK airfield, home to Lockweed..er..Lockheed

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