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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:29 am 
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bdk wrote:
Broken-Wrench wrote:
The FAA should be concluding it's investigation and they should have a determination of fault real soon. If I was a betting man, I would bet the LSFM Insurance isn't going to go up and their hurricane will be repaired like new.
FAA conclusions can often be vague and might only be one of the opinions presented in court if it gets to that point.

If there were to be a lawsuit, the FAA opinion would only be one of pehaps many presented.

We also don't know if either aircraft had liability insurance, let alone hull coverage.

Before anyone jumps to conclusions with respect to fault, it might be valuable to look at two accidents with similar characteristics:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X40769&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20070801X01080&key=1

I would be interested in knowing what procedure was briefed that day with respect to landings and aircraft separation.


I don't publicly like to speculate, but don't be surprised if the reason for the incident is completely different from those two examples, or anyone's guesses. There are many variables and factors that can make each incident different.
I'm just glad no one was injured. Let's hope that both aircraft are returned to the air as soon as possible.
Jerry

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 Post subject: Re: ???
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:40 am 
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Jack Cook wrote:
Quote:
must say that I'm repulsed by the idea that anyone would revel in another's misery

BINGO :prayer: :prayer: :prayer:



Me too!

I may not agree with Bill on many things, but it could have been me pranging the aircraft. In fact the first thing that came to my mind was how do I keep out of a similar situation. There are 2 aircraft and pilots involved.

1.) The pilots are OK ( this is most important)
2.) No matter the final outcome of the investigation, we do not blame, we learn. I've said it before, better pilots than me are dead. They are dead because something broke, or their decision tree was flawed. It is up to us to toast our fallen comrade and learn from them.


This is a time for us to come together as warbird lovers, owners and pilots.

I've got a cold one for either pilot if they ever come to the Akron Show. We will argue politics, or discusse more pleasant flying topics.

Just remember:

IT COULD HAVE BEEN YOU!


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:05 am 
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Lets just be glad no one was hurt. That is all that really matters now or 10 months from now.
However, fotobass is right. We should stop making guesses and leave it to those who do what they need to do.

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Last edited by Bluedharma on Fri May 09, 2008 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:08 pm 
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DB2 wrote:
Considering the way in which Robert Waltrip uses his Gulfstreams, I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not the Hurricane repair will be funded.

The LSFM is a great organization, but there are many other warbird groups out there that are more in need of private donations to stay solvent, including several championed by various WIX members.


OTEY BUCKWHEAT :D :D :D

Send your money to the CAF- Texas Raiders instead!

Criminey... you can't hardly try and do a good deed around here anymore without people getting all...judgemental!
(That was the worst epitaph my liberal lady friend could hurl at me before SHE got all judgemental on my action and took a permanent powder.)
:axe:

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:10 pm 
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Why not send money to Bill?

I don't know his personal situation, but AFAIK he's footing the bill to keep his bird flying personally. I have no museum backing me either, and the days of the personally owned and operated warbirds are coming to an end IMHO.


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:18 pm 
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NEVER EVER EVER SAID...
Don't send money to Bill...

I was just saying there are bound to be expenses beyond what will be covered by Insurance.

I hate that this happened to BOTH airplanes and pilots!

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 Post subject: ???
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:20 pm 
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Let's just wait until the dust settles and then chart a course of action?

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:46 pm 
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Jerry O'Neill wrote:
I don't publicly like to speculate, but don't be surprised if the reason for the incident is completely different from those two examples, or anyone's guesses. There are many variables and factors that can make each incident different.
That exactly is my point. Both the accidents I listed seem to have occurred in similar parts of the landing sequence yet had entirely different causes.


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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Hey Guys-

Just want to clear up some possible misinformation as someone who has spent a lot of time at Lone Star over the last several years as a humble volunteer. I can't profess to know what goes on behind closed doors but can speak for what I have seen.
Yes, it is true that the museum is fortunate to have some generous supporters BUT - the musuem staff and managment works VERY hard for these relationships as well as every penny it takes to keep the doors open. Sometimes that takes some creative work and really long hours to accomplish. There is no sugar daddy supporting the organzation and writing blank checks, the museum has been very much and very formally seperated(althought on very good terms) from its founder for several years now. Notice the lack of several aircraft that until recently we were lucky enough to have staying in the hanger. I hope that folks out there aren't getting the idea that the museum is financially on easy street and the repair of this airplane is just going to magically happen. - Trust me - this is not going to as easy as sending out the airplane for repair, there ain't no one writing a blank check here. Prime Example - have you noticed the progression of work on the PB4Y lately :roll: - the willingnes is there to get her in the air, but funding is slow. You all would be in shock if you saw what the utility bill alone on that hanger is each month, especially in the perfect summertime climate of Galveston TX.

By the logic of some on this thread I geuss we could also say that because the CAF has a big hanger, a fulltime staff, and a large fleet of aircraft as well as corporate sponsorship and the support of folks like Mr. Cavanaugh they don't need our support either :o - I think we all know better.

Now don't get me wrong - the museum is certianly not on the rocks or in a bad financial state, but that has more to do with Larry Gregory and those who came before him, coupled with the staff and volunteers such as Elroy and Tom Crawford working there ass off to keep the doors open, airplanes in the air and come up with new ways to make ends meet in an economy that is tight and getting tighter when it comes to discretionary funding and donations. The Ride program is a perfect example of some of the new things that are necessary to keep the birds in the air. ( which btw makes a great gifts 8) ) But at the end of the day that won't do it alone. When was the last time anyone even mentioned National Warplane AKA WIngs of Eagles on this board. That too was a powerhouse of a museum which a lot folks probably thought was less worthy than some others.

Everyone has the right to choose where and how they spend there money but to imply that people willing to make donations to us should not because you feel that the musuem is not worthy is incredibley shortsighted, ignorant and insulting and exactly what will close the doors on the place. That would certianly be a tragedy for the Warbird community as a whole(just ask Spanner), not to mention the fact that it would put an end to a lot of education outreach, preservation, and curatorial programs that are not as glamorous or visible as flying airplanes and which folks on this board probably don't even realize are going on as a result of this organization.

Do we have a good organization- yes
- is because of a sugar daddy NO
- is it because of volunteer support and good Management Most DEFINITLY
- is LSFM on easy street- Certinaly not -
- DO we need your support - Absolutely

Please don't punish us because we have worked hard to build up something good.

Steve S. stepping down off my soapbox once again


Last edited by Steve S on Fri May 02, 2008 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:58 pm 
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Quit yer whinin about Galveston weather! It can't be as bad as Goldenmeadow in the summer lol!


I used to love you guys showing up at our airshows when I was a kid. Thanks for all that you ALL have done all these years to keep us dreaming!

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PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:41 am 
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Thanks boots- Keeping folks dreamnig and happy is what it is all about at the end of the day-


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:08 pm 
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Steve S wrote:
Steve S. stepping down off my soapbox once again

Steve -

Your points are well taken and valid, and I sincerely apologise for the connotation my original post carried.

My intended point was that I would rather see folks donate their hard-earned money to specific aircraft projects or organizations that are struggling, rather than to the repairs of what is essentially a well-funded, privately-owned aircraft (note: aircraft not organization). I will admit that my post was likely tainted by the fact that, in other circles, I have at times been a vocal critic of the blatantly self-serving and irresponsible fashion in which Mr. Waltrip and his cronies on the SCI board have run their supposedly public company. But that's another matter entirely.

I have long been a fan of the LSFM, and, on the two occasions I have personally interacted with the team there (one of the airshow banquets, and organizing an aerobatic contest at GLS some years ago), every single person I spoke with was helpful, positive and a genuine example of what I term "good people".

I applaud the work that LSFM volunteers and staff have done in preserving history, and to show my support of the museum and its people, I'm signing up for a membership, which I would encourage anyone else to do via the below link:

http://www.lsfm.org/membership.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:03 pm 
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DB2 wrote:
Steve S wrote:
Steve S. stepping down off my soapbox once again

Steve -

Your points are well taken and valid, and I sincerely apologise for the connotation my original post carried.

My intended point was that I would rather see folks donate their hard-earned money to specific aircraft projects or organizations that are struggling, rather than to the repairs of what is essentially a well-funded, privately-owned aircraft (note: aircraft not organization). I will admit that my post was likely tainted by the fact that, in other circles, I have at times been a vocal critic of the blatantly self-serving and irresponsible fashion in which Mr. Waltrip and his cronies on the SCI board have run their supposedly public company. But that's another matter entirely.

I have long been a fan of the LSFM, and, on the two occasions I have personally interacted with the team there (one of the airshow banquets, and organizing an aerobatic contest at GLS some years ago), every single person I spoke with was helpful, positive and a genuine example of what I term "good people".

I applaud the work that LSFM volunteers and staff have done in preserving history, and to show my support of the museum and its people, I'm signing up for a membership, which I would encourage anyone else to do via the below link:

http://www.lsfm.org/membership.html


Thanks DB2!!! Thanks for the kind words! Soon as you're ready to get involved let me know!!! :drink3: Steve can tell you that we can never have enough active volunteer/members!

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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:32 pm 
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Good rebuttal, Steve. er...shouldn't that be an AMMO box?

DB2- welcome aboard!



Doug Ratchford 'Canso42'


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