A problem with the US
Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:20 pm
From a UK friend of mine, who just visited the US for 2 weeks..
Recovered? Well I'm yawning like crazy, think I'm still on west-coast time! Still, I've only been home for just over a day.
I loved my time in the US, like I always do (once I've cleared the rude and ignorant US immigration/TSA staff at the airport - but that's another story!)
Nia had lots of fun, although she battled toothache most of the trip. She's travelled the world but it was her first time on the west coast (she's done Boston, NY, Dayton and Kittyhawk before).
Arizona is both desolate and beautiful. My favourite 'site' was Monument Valley, it was simply amazing. You just can't believe the scale of the place - even more so than the Grand Canyon in my opinion.
Food was great, climate just about perfect and the folks really friendly. We had lots of fun.
If only you could make it easier to get into the country you'd have a load more tourist dollars being spent in the US. But while tourists are treated like criminals/animals/lesser citizens the average Brit is going to spend his vacation money elsewhere in the world.
Seriously, it's got to the point now where even I am thinking twice about returning to the US. It took me nearly 15 minutes at the immigration desk, being rudely spoken to, before I was allowed into your country to spend my money. I had to prove that I had a return airfare (to prove I wasn't going to stay for good) and the officer was distinctly unpleased that I had no plans for the second week of my vacation. Teh fact that I planned to travel around various places filled him with suspision.
Finally I was allowed through - 15 minutes after the rest of my party who'd had no problems, despite having the same travel documents, flight details and plans.
Then, on the way home at the end of the trip, I had to remind the TSA 'officer' to remove my green card from my passport. This happened to my girlfriend a few years ago and when she tried to re-enter the US it caused problems because the TSA had no record of her ever leaving (because they'd forgotten to remove the card from her passport). It seems the TSA staff are too thorough when they don't need to be, and then slapdash when it matters.
I don't mind security, it's necessary. What's not necessary is to be rude to people.
Sadly, guys, it's going to kill your tourism market. Brits just ain't going to put up with it much longer. At the moment the weakness of the dollar makes it cheap for us to visit the US. But when that changes people are going to go to 'friendly' nations instead. We won't put up with being treated like second class citizens for much longer.
Seems like we need to revise how we treat foreign visitors...I've heard how tourists from abroad are cutting back their visits to our fair country because of how they are being treated....very disappointing.
Mark
Recovered? Well I'm yawning like crazy, think I'm still on west-coast time! Still, I've only been home for just over a day.
I loved my time in the US, like I always do (once I've cleared the rude and ignorant US immigration/TSA staff at the airport - but that's another story!)
Nia had lots of fun, although she battled toothache most of the trip. She's travelled the world but it was her first time on the west coast (she's done Boston, NY, Dayton and Kittyhawk before).
Arizona is both desolate and beautiful. My favourite 'site' was Monument Valley, it was simply amazing. You just can't believe the scale of the place - even more so than the Grand Canyon in my opinion.
Food was great, climate just about perfect and the folks really friendly. We had lots of fun.
If only you could make it easier to get into the country you'd have a load more tourist dollars being spent in the US. But while tourists are treated like criminals/animals/lesser citizens the average Brit is going to spend his vacation money elsewhere in the world.
Seriously, it's got to the point now where even I am thinking twice about returning to the US. It took me nearly 15 minutes at the immigration desk, being rudely spoken to, before I was allowed into your country to spend my money. I had to prove that I had a return airfare (to prove I wasn't going to stay for good) and the officer was distinctly unpleased that I had no plans for the second week of my vacation. Teh fact that I planned to travel around various places filled him with suspision.
Finally I was allowed through - 15 minutes after the rest of my party who'd had no problems, despite having the same travel documents, flight details and plans.
Then, on the way home at the end of the trip, I had to remind the TSA 'officer' to remove my green card from my passport. This happened to my girlfriend a few years ago and when she tried to re-enter the US it caused problems because the TSA had no record of her ever leaving (because they'd forgotten to remove the card from her passport). It seems the TSA staff are too thorough when they don't need to be, and then slapdash when it matters.
I don't mind security, it's necessary. What's not necessary is to be rude to people.
Sadly, guys, it's going to kill your tourism market. Brits just ain't going to put up with it much longer. At the moment the weakness of the dollar makes it cheap for us to visit the US. But when that changes people are going to go to 'friendly' nations instead. We won't put up with being treated like second class citizens for much longer.
Seems like we need to revise how we treat foreign visitors...I've heard how tourists from abroad are cutting back their visits to our fair country because of how they are being treated....very disappointing.
Mark
Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:17 pm
Mark: It would be worth the time to drop notes detailing your problems and the rudeness to both ICE and TSA. If they are creating problems and don't or won't correct it on the spot, the higher-ups should know about it. We just had a big flap over TSA people requiring a woman to remove some body jewelry that she had been wearing for years. Got to be real nasty when she went after them with a shark lawyer. A week or so later she got a public apology and an admission that their guides were in need of some common sense upgrades and corrections.
I lodged an informal complaint about a TSA procedure I was subjected to several years ago. Didn't see any changes until the next time I flew. What I was subjected to had been modified and almost entirely eliminated. Don't know if it was my complaint that did it, but at least it was some feedback on what appeared to be a dumb and wastefull process.
I lodged an informal complaint about a TSA procedure I was subjected to several years ago. Didn't see any changes until the next time I flew. What I was subjected to had been modified and almost entirely eliminated. Don't know if it was my complaint that did it, but at least it was some feedback on what appeared to be a dumb and wastefull process.
Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:28 pm
Tell your friend that there are plenty of honest citizens in the US who feel the same way she does - and that's worse because this is our own country! I'd rather take the risk of the terrorist, and have the freedom to defend myself.
Ryan
Ryan
Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:00 pm
In the name of political correctness and "fairness" we need to treat everyone equally, like crap.
Welcome to the US, now go home...
"Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little (false sense of) security deserve neither security nor liberty."
Welcome to the US, now go home...
"Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little (false sense of) security deserve neither security nor liberty."
Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:33 am
As a Brit, I get pretty ticked off with those of my fellow countrymen who, on the basis of one (usually hugely exaggerated) 'bad' experience, claim that the whole of the UK's population will, en masse, stop visiting the US of A!
Get real: a Brit entering the USA is, on balance, likely to find the experience a whole lot friendlier than will an American (or indeed anybody from outside the EC) entering the UK - particularly at Heathrow. And believe me, there are a whole heap of countries worse still. For example, I saw a seriously bad case of overt racism ever at Paris CDG security last year, and recently had my least efficient (ie slowest) entry ever at Jakarta. And the least said about Heathrow T5 the better......
In the last 30 years, I have walked up to that yellow line in US Immigration about 15 times, most recently with a student party in November last year. I always make sure my paperwork is in order, I wait patiently, I answer the questions and don't smartarse the officials who are doing their job. I have NEVER had a problem, and never been with anyone who has.
Get real: a Brit entering the USA is, on balance, likely to find the experience a whole lot friendlier than will an American (or indeed anybody from outside the EC) entering the UK - particularly at Heathrow. And believe me, there are a whole heap of countries worse still. For example, I saw a seriously bad case of overt racism ever at Paris CDG security last year, and recently had my least efficient (ie slowest) entry ever at Jakarta. And the least said about Heathrow T5 the better......
In the last 30 years, I have walked up to that yellow line in US Immigration about 15 times, most recently with a student party in November last year. I always make sure my paperwork is in order, I wait patiently, I answer the questions and don't smartarse the officials who are doing their job. I have NEVER had a problem, and never been with anyone who has.
Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:37 am
Sorry Anowreck,
I am an american living in Europe and I have to disagree. It's easier for me to enter and exit anywhere in Europe than it is for me to even reenter my own country, the USA.
I love europe and if I can swing it I want to stay there. The USA has swirled right down the commode in many respects if you ask me. Heck, I feel safer here at work in Afghanistan than I do after dark in my hometown of Atlanta, Ga., and that's supposed to be a "nice" city!
I am an american living in Europe and I have to disagree. It's easier for me to enter and exit anywhere in Europe than it is for me to even reenter my own country, the USA.
I love europe and if I can swing it I want to stay there. The USA has swirled right down the commode in many respects if you ask me. Heck, I feel safer here at work in Afghanistan than I do after dark in my hometown of Atlanta, Ga., and that's supposed to be a "nice" city!
Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:02 am
I think the key here is attitude. If you act respectful and follow instructions (like having the things out they tell you to have out) you'll have a much better experience than if you walk in with a chip on your shoulder.
I've not been out of the US much, but every time I have I've witnessed an incident at both US Customs and at the other end (Mexican several times and Jamaican another). Every time it was because the person had an attitude. In 2 cases they didn't have their passport out and ready and didn't follow instructions for inspection of their bags, and the others were just simply that they had an attitude from the first word out of their mouth as they stepped up to the screening area.
Customs & immigration agents around the world have to deal with these people every day and they really don't like to put up with it. I don't necessarily condone the chip some of them have on their shoulders, but at the same time, their life is a hell of a lot more stressful on a daily basis than most of ours are.
I've not been out of the US much, but every time I have I've witnessed an incident at both US Customs and at the other end (Mexican several times and Jamaican another). Every time it was because the person had an attitude. In 2 cases they didn't have their passport out and ready and didn't follow instructions for inspection of their bags, and the others were just simply that they had an attitude from the first word out of their mouth as they stepped up to the screening area.
Customs & immigration agents around the world have to deal with these people every day and they really don't like to put up with it. I don't necessarily condone the chip some of them have on their shoulders, but at the same time, their life is a hell of a lot more stressful on a daily basis than most of ours are.
Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:22 pm
As a corporate pilot, I've dealt with customs in a variety of locations, and I find the most exasperating part to be the arbitrary nature of each place we clear. If I clear in Great Falls, MT, I'm not allowed to even get off the plane until an agent approaches. If I clear in Ft. Lauderdale, I'm to have the entire plane unloaded, passengers out, access panels open, and be inside the building ASAP. I've been yelled at by agents in both cities for not complying with "their" policies.
On another note, I once cleared in Bellingham, WA with Tony Robbins on board, and the customs agent raked him over the coals. It was pretty funny...he's a jack-ass.
I have found customs in other countries to be MUCH easier to deal with. Canada is a non-event, most of the time I call CANPASS from my cell phone as we taxi in, and never even have to shut down. Mexico is a piece of cake...bring plenty of cash. The worst part is being the guy that gets the red light when their "random" traffic-light looking thing selects your bags to be searched. The Caribbean is easy, most FBO's will take care of the paperwork if you call them ahead of time.
Additionally, the attitudes of the agents in the U.S. are by far the worst I've seen. Worst cases of "little man" syndrome I've had to deal with, even worse than the local yokel cops I endure here in MT.
On another note, I once cleared in Bellingham, WA with Tony Robbins on board, and the customs agent raked him over the coals. It was pretty funny...he's a jack-ass.
I have found customs in other countries to be MUCH easier to deal with. Canada is a non-event, most of the time I call CANPASS from my cell phone as we taxi in, and never even have to shut down. Mexico is a piece of cake...bring plenty of cash. The worst part is being the guy that gets the red light when their "random" traffic-light looking thing selects your bags to be searched. The Caribbean is easy, most FBO's will take care of the paperwork if you call them ahead of time.
Additionally, the attitudes of the agents in the U.S. are by far the worst I've seen. Worst cases of "little man" syndrome I've had to deal with, even worse than the local yokel cops I endure here in MT.
Thu Aug 14, 2008 4:53 pm
in what way is TR a jackass? ooooh Smaerjob! I always wondered about him. Never felt much "like" for any self help guru, and he just seems spooky.
Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:03 pm
Without going into all the gory details, that flight was his first and last with our company. We went from Bellingham to Aspen and four days later, when we delayed the pick up by a couple of hours due to weather in the Rockies, he was, to put it mildly, a little put out. Evidently whatever he had going on in Vegas that evening was more important than our safety or his.
My chief pilot at the time was as crotchety as they come, and when we landed, he let TR have it, and "invited" him to never call us again for a flight.
My chief pilot at the time was as crotchety as they come, and when we landed, he let TR have it, and "invited" him to never call us again for a flight.
Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:54 pm
Don't like the TSA and customs guys in New York , next time just go to Mexico and wade across the Rio Bravo! 2,000,000 ILLEAGAL ALLIENS CAN'T BE WRONG.
Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:28 pm
FWIW - I traveled to the UK a few years ago, and both going and coming I had no problems with either the US or UK airport folks. What went wrong?! 
Wade
Wade
Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:28 pm
FWIW - I traveled to the UK a few years ago, and both going and coming I had no problems with either the US or UK airport folks. What went wrong?!
Wade
Wade
Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:47 pm
Chicoartist wrote:FWIW - I traveled to the UK a few years ago, and both going and coming I had no problems with either the US or UK airport folks. What went wrong?!
Good for you, Wade.
Well, that's how it's supposed to be. Something many immigration folks forget.
Sadly, US border control are adversely affecting US commerce and putting people off visiting your fine country. It would be a good idea to get LAX into some semblance of a 'working' airport too.
CAPFlyer's right, that attitude is important; it's not the whole story - I didn't appreciate being treated as cattle or as a criminal by semi-trained morons - which can cause problems due to normal reaction to poor service.
While they are screwing up relations with people who don't respond well to jobsworths, they are also failing in the task of protecting their country.
I could go on, but shan't.