House Livery - Confederate Air Force

[Sasquatch]

Okay, so since I'm the one that now "officially" approves paint schemes in the CAF, I should move to have all of our airplanes painted white, with red and blue stripes then? So, do we save the nose art on Ol' 927, or paint over it then?

It sounds as if the "Warbird junkies" on this thread then, for the most part, are "tired" of the original schemes and would rather see civilian schemes then??? I'm still confused.

Gary

Disclaimer: These posts of mine on this thread are merely for interaction and to spur conversation. In no way am I going to actually consider painting these aircraft in the old civilian schemes, as those schemes do nothing to honor Military Aviation and those who built, maintained, and flew these aircraft.

Gary,

I don't think anyone is saying the planes should be repainted. They're great as they are, 'specially Ol' 927! I think what you're hearing is people expressing an interest in historic CAF paint schemes, that's all. But that was back then, and this is now, so I wouldn't think anyone would want the fleet schemes to go backwards...however, it is fun to look back at the old house paint schemes.

Honoring veterans is a good thing...but I would think honoring aerial firefighters would be just as good. Being a veteran myself, I can appreciate the desire to keep alive the memories of those who flew the planes in combat. But I'll also say that is not my only interest. I'm interested in the machines themselves, and in their varied historical lives, regardless of whether they were in a war or not. All those facets of their flying histories merit interpretation, in my opinion.

I love all the great WWII schemes I see on the planes out there. But you wouldn't see me complaining if someone decided to paint a plane in other than WWII colors, as I think there's a place in historic aircraft preservation for differing points of appreciation.

Having said all that, I still think it's up to the owners to paint them how they like: WWII, civvie, pink or otherwise. I'm just glad they're flying.

So I wouldn't think of this discussion as a complaint about CAF's or anyone else's paint schemes. If you read the original thread...it's about early CAF history and the interesting "house livery" that some CAF planes once wore...a neat anecdote in their history.

--Tom

[retroaviation]

Well said, Tom. This talk that you, Ryan, Ryan, and gary1954 are posting is exactly the kind of conversation I was hoping for. It's true that this thread was about the early CAF livery, I was merely trying to provoke further conversation about it vs. the current trend of more "authentic" appearing aircraft.

And I agree about the firefighters as well. Personally, I think it would be cool to see a completely restored TBM or Tigercat restored to their firefighting configurations...and paint.

Gary

[Django]

Don't you dare Gary! I know where you live.

Gary already knows how I feel about authenticity. I think all you are seeing is an interest in the past livery as being interesting as it's part of the history of the organization. Most here are diehard warbird buffs, so ANY pic that is something not seen before is noteworthy in the history of a specific aircraft. The only one I am old enough to have ever seen in person is the P-38. Even as a kid I couldn't figure out why it was painted like that when all the rest were painted as "warbirds".

Like in Air Classics, they have the "before warbirds" column. It's neat to look at. But how could anyone advocate painting a restoration in a civilian scheme in this day in age is beyond me.

I finally decided to scan the photos in my gold mine of a old CAF book we have. There are quite a few so bear with me, but I think you guys will find some of them interesting. BTW, I apologize for the page breaks in the first two photos, and the noses cut off of some of the airplanes. They were like that in the book, and there's not much I can do about it. All photos are credited to the CAF.

[Sasquatch]

HOLY GUACAMOLE RYAN!!!

I think I just wet myelf! ha ha ha

--Tom

[Ztex]

Great!

I like the Silver with red Mustang! looks like a factory paint job...


Gary....if'n you wanna do a civy paint (yes I read the disclaimer) job you gotta do this one...

[Django]

Ok, I don't want to read ANY gripes about the next Cessna photo that comes along running invasion stripes and a sharkmouth!

[Cripes A Mighty]

What CAF book are those out of? I have a blue hardback with a silver CAF logo on the front from 1975. I have all the above pics in it (plus a few more) but it doesn't look like the same format.

These came out of a blue book also, but mine is newer than 1975. I only know that for sure at the moment, because there is a section in it about Airsho' 76. I also have more photos in my book, but I didn't scan them all. The ones I left out were mostly the bomber ones because the bombers technically were never in the "house" livery. Raiders was the closest, but she was purchased in that paint scheme.

[mustangdriver]

Ahh Paint......camo.....O.D.....Civie Paint....no paint...perhaps one should use water color, so that the paint scheme can be changed as often as one changes their socks....Personally, IMHO, IF one is going to fly an example of an aircraft that falls into the category of a "Warbird" then the machine needs to appear that she has been flown in combat... and her paint should be chipped and to some degree maybe-a-couple-a small dents here and there, and patches as appropriate. And if a former Medium Bomber is going to wear "Civie" paint, then, IMHO she should be decked out as a VIP Executive Configuration...I saw an H&P Privateer at an air show at Ft Huachuca once, and regardless of the paint scheme, she was awesome...

I have to say that I don't want to see a bunch of fake weathering on aircraft. Might as well run down to Pep Boys and get some of those sticker bulet holes to put on it as well. Why do that to an aircraft that more than likely never left the states during combat.

[Ztex]

Ok, I don't want to read ANY gripes about the next Cessna photo that comes along running invasion stripes and a sharkmouth!

[Steve Nelson]

I have to say that I don't want to see a bunch of fake weathering on aircraft. Might as well run down to Pep Boys and get some of those sticker bulet holes to put on it as well.

Definately agree with you there! When Fifi visited the Air Zoo back around 2000, someone had actually stuck some of those stupid "bullet holes" on the fuselage..looked cheesy as heck. I don't mind a few little paint chips, exhaust stains, and oil streaks..but deliberately letting a warbird get beat up just looks like shoddy maintenance to me.

Cool pics, everybody, BTW. I've never seen this many pictures of the "early days" of the CAF. They're an interesting bit of history, but I must say I prefer my warbirds restored to combat configuration with accurate military paint schemes (yeah.."my" warbirds..like I could ever afford one!)

SN

[T J Johansen]

I found a slide for sale on evilbay showing the CAF P-47 in the house colors. The price is up there, but if anyone is interested there is still time!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=021



And now, over to something completely different...

Like in Air Classics, they have the "before warbirds" column. It's neat to look at. But how could anyone advocate painting a restoration in a civilian scheme in this day in age is beyond me.

So if someone buys one of these a/c and gives it a thorough restoration, the colors need to go?
Photo from: www.warbirdregistry.org

Photos from: www.mustangsmustangs.net



To Gary.
No, I don't expect to see the CAF fleet return to the "house colors", although I wouldn't kick and scream if they did... However I would like to see some of these old warhorses remain in civilian colors as the civilian part of their history is the main reason they're still around. Also, I have to admit that these days I don't get fired up by newly restored Mustangs painted in 4th and 352nd FG colors these days. To some the possibility to see a full line-up of them in the static is pure heaven, but to me it screams boredom. Given that there are so many other choices for which to choose. On the other hand I am not a part of the "ruler police" and I do not roam the airfields wanting to check every little piece of stenciling on your a/c to make sure it is accurate.

DISCLAIMER
Before anyone starts with the old "he who owns + pays= decides" routine this is merely the author's thoughts, and does not in any way reflect the opinion of WIX, Microsoft, George Bush, Borat or any other individual, living or deceased.

No authentically painted warbird was harmed in any way during the making of this post.

T J

[mlenoch]

My own Warbird PC color-scheme agenda only includes the correct color of the Mustang gear doors. I have yet to find any color photos showing painted-green Mustang gear doors. From the factory and in the field, the inside of the doors were painted silver (occassionally, one finds what appears to be natural metal ). Yet, my PC instinct is to tell Mustang owners that the green colors are incorrect............but, alas, I refrain.
(Whew, I feel better now! Thx.)
VL
PS: The lawsuit against Borat was dismissed this week. FYI

[mustangdriver]

I think that a warbird should be painted in atleast semi-correct scheme. The Week's B-25 with his wife's picture on it comes to mind. I think it is great. If I own a P-38, I'm going to wanat to put my girlfriend's name on it, and my name under the canopy. Or at least should have the right to do so, but should have enough respect to put an accurate base paint scheme on it. Now that being said, some non-military schemes on airplanes have made the airplane more famous such as Hoover's P-51 which is awesome, and should not be changed. That P-51 is historic in it's own right. Just as the P-51 Miss America.