Warbird Information Exchange

The small window between wing leading edge and co-pilots side windows looks flat rather than being a bubble in the Hornet photo.
Tire is smooth and well oiled. Every start the engine will puke some oil and they ran the engines often so it blows back on the tire and even while parked the wind caused by the carrier moving will blow the oil dripping on the tire.
Rich

There is virtually no difference visually or otherwise. The C was made in Inglewood, while the D was built in Kansas City. There were some minor changes made during D model production but most of those were later introduced into the C model production in Inglewood. Visually you can't tell the difference save the serial number.

In looking at the photos that Martin and Ryan posted, it seems to me that the windows below and behind the glass nose section are of a different shape than the ones I've noticed....the ones I remember are only aprox 4" to 5" deep, and seemed to have a slight curve towards the verticle on the right side.......

Well, maybe you're right.



Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

why is this edited, Copyright or something?

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Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

Nope - it's my personal policy to never post nude nose art. - and I really don't want to debate the issue. I know what I believe and why I believe it.

Ryan

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Aerial Photographer with Red Wing Aerial Photography currently based at KRBD and tailwheel CFI.
Websites: Texas Tailwheel Flight Training, DoolittleRaid.com and Lbirds.com.

The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD. - Prov. 21:31 - Train, Practice, Trust.

Hey...not a problem....dif stokes for dif folks....screws up a lot of old photographs though...

_________________
Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

VMB-611's PBJ-1D models had solid dual mounted .50s in the nose, as well as two .50 package guns on both sides, giving them seven .50s forward that they did use successfully in low-level strafing attacks. Also notice the waist gunports on MB 3...not common on the "D", but VMB-611's PBJs were modified to add the waist guns, as well as 5in rocket "hard-points" being added, as on MB 4.

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In Honor and Memory of Marine Bombing Squadron VMB 611 "Black Seahorse" 1943-1945
Remembering 1st Lt Doit L Fish, MIA May 30, 1945 in PBJ-1J "MB 11"
Cherry Point - Parris Island - Emirau - Zamboanga

Notice that none of those pictures with the stacked nose guns have the bombardiers floor window.

I agree with Gary. Without looking at a current photo, the window I'm referring to on today's warbird J-models does seem shaped in a slightly different way - but in the same location. And even if they were TB-25N's or radome birds at one time, odds are that today's nose sections still started life as J-model greenhouses rather than C or D retreads.

Looking through the great photos you all have put forward, the B's definiately have flat side navigator windows. As an interesting aside, have any of you seen the photos of a Navy blimp delivering packages to the Hornet after it set sail? (Glines: Doolittle's Tokyo Raiders) Supposedly the packages included new navigator windows that didn't arrive in time. (The factory ones were flat too, BTW.)

Other Doolittle notes, particularly from the censored nose photo. This airplane has the floor window but the .30 mount was plated over or, at second glance, covered by a clever weather cover -- and there are gun ports on both side windows. Also note what might be the added strike camera in the forward upper nose widow, pilot's side.

The factory C-model photos clearly show a gun port on the pilot's side, but I'm not certain about the other. And then there are several pix you guys have shared with no additional ports. Would enjoy learning why.

So, finally, does anyone know when the C/D models started getting Clayton exhaust stacks ... and another question generated by seeing the PBJ-1D ... did all C/D models have convex nav astrodomes on top of the fuselage ... as the B did not.

Thanks for all the input,
Ken

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

Here is some interesting reading:

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b25_4.html

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b25_6.html

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b25_7.html

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"Take care of the little things and the big things will take care of themselves."

I believe the window to be the same on both the B,C,D and early J models.


Like I mentioned J model production began with the window in the floor and somewhere along production (I understand with additions to bombardier floor armor and additional nose guns) the window was eliminated. Seeing a warbird today with the floor armor and side guns that still has the window doesn't mean much since you have no idea of the configuration of the original aircraft when it left the factory. I can remember seeing many of the glazed noses around that have mostly all been incorporated into warbird restorations such as "Tootsie," "Miss Hap," "Yankee Warrior" and others that had solid noses.

Ryan



The first C models did not have astrodome but it was soon incorporated and C/D production.

back to the origin of this thread: the floor window.
Our B-25 bomber doesn't have one and I can't recall having seen one. Earlier today I checked the recently published book "The Ultimate Look" on the B-25 Mitchell, written by William Wolf. There's no special attention given to versions of the B-25 with and without the floor window. The MAAM B-25 seems to have a floow window, I'll check if I can find other current Mitchells.
To be continued...

Someone who has various revisions of the parts manual may be able to determine a time frame when the window disappeared however it is clear from WWII era photographs that some J models had the window and some did not. From the best I can tell reviewing a lot of pictures over the year that aircraft that have the additional .50 in the front (or at least the provision for it which was also around the same time when the bombardiers floor armor came into production) do not have the window. There would be some exceptions to this rule as many aircraft were modified in the field by either adding the second forward firing .50 gun or removing it.

Ryan

In TO 01-60GB-1, Fig 37 shows the bombardier's compartment, and the little window is shown as part of item 338- It is a little window around a ball and socket mount for a .30 cal MG. Apparently the earlier models had another ball to push a .30 through, which may have either been replaced by the window, or the mount may have been removed postwar. It is obvious, once the ball is there, that the window is to see what you're shooting at!

You can see this ball mount in the couple color WWII pics posted before the Doolittle raid pics...

Guess they figured the bombardier could shoot down and forward, too! Really an awkward position. The copy of the TO I have is the Aviation Publications reprint sod under the title "Pilot's Manual for B-25 Mitchell" and the original issue date was November 1, 1942. Covered C & D models.

Robbie