Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:01 am
Plans?
(*crosses fingers*)
(*crosses fingers*)
Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:05 am
Evan Byrne wrote:Plans?
(*crosses fingers*)
Nope. You might try contacting Robby directly. His website is www.groveaircraft.com. He has built several composite wings for several Cassutt racers over the years. I'm sure he would build you whatever you wanted if the $$$$$$$$ was right.
Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:08 am
What would be my fastest bet for a plans-built f-1?
(hopefully something with a "new age" edge to it?)
(hopefully something with a "new age" edge to it?)
Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:33 pm
Madness...
Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:40 pm
I may have to give the coolness vote to a cassutt. How is the performance on the GR-7? (how does it do in the races?)
Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:07 am
After reading an article about Owl's in an old 'Air Racing Magazine' from '74, it says Owl racer plans were made, and from the sounds of it readily available at the time, so some still must be around? It also has a few pictures of and references pogo a few times.
I'm going to give the magazine to John Richards (current owner of pogo, and owl enthusiast)
I'm going to give the magazine to John Richards (current owner of pogo, and owl enthusiast)
Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:04 am
What are yall's opinion on the snoshoo being a good sport flier?
Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:27 am
New plan: Snoshoo. Plans and build manual are ordered, looking for pre built parts.
I talked to John Richards (pogo's owner), he has a virgin owl fuselage, and a full set of owl plans along with a new wing that Owl had designed to fit the owl racer.
I talked to John Richards (pogo's owner), he has a virgin owl fuselage, and a full set of owl plans along with a new wing that Owl had designed to fit the owl racer.
Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:51 am
Evan Byrne wrote:New plan: Snoshoo. Plans and build manual are ordered, looking for pre built parts."
did you manage to get in touch with the snoshoo guy?? i really like this plane and would could be very interested in a set of plans...
are they still manufacturing the pre wielded frames and other components???
how much do you know.... '8)
sk
Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:13 am
The fella I've been dealing with on Sno Shoo parts is A.J. Smith, and his e-mail address is: ajsmith1941@msn.com
Gary
Gary
Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:37 am
I did get in contact with the guy, I ordered plans and a build manual. Still trying to decide if thats the plane I want. That, or a cassutt.
Call the numbers on the site to get in contact with him.
I'd like to mod either one I get to be a little more sporty and better for cross country. 'Also like to mod it to go as fast as possible.
Call the numbers on the site to get in contact with him.
I'd like to mod either one I get to be a little more sporty and better for cross country. 'Also like to mod it to go as fast as possible.
Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:48 am
How about installing an IO-720?Evan Byrne wrote:I'd like to mod either one I get to be a little more sporty and better for cross country. 'Also like to mod it to go as fast as possible.
As Gary's article pointed out, cross country in this type of aircraft is going to be a challenge. Why not build something more practical like an RV-3? At least then you have a ready market should you choose to sell.
Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:51 am
I want a little race plane. I like the small size, small fuel burn and typically faster speeds than something like and RV-3.
And as for "Cross country" I mean hopping around from airport to airport around California, not 3 hours non stop flights.
And as for "Cross country" I mean hopping around from airport to airport around California, not 3 hours non stop flights.
Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:56 am
Been in contact with AJ about the 'Shoo. Here is some history and info on it:
You will like the SnooShoo, as the two people who have flown it (first flight June '06) are Ed Bowes and Hep Porter...Hep said it was the "funnest, ugliest airplane I've ever flown!" That is a direct quote, as I witnessed the flight, he had a ball, and the airplane was in five shades of gray primer and pretty "un-glossy"! The airplane had a stock C-85 in it and Hep said he got 207 mph with the sport/race prop that was on it. He really liked it. The airplane is now in my paintbooth getting ready to "look pretty". If you'd like to see my work, go to Barnstormers.com and look at Jim Wooden's Pitts Model 12, N144RJ, finished last year at my shop (Ed Bowes flew it to Lincoln) its my first double-cover fabric job.
The history of SnooShoo goes back to 1978 when Ray Cote, his crew chief Paul White, and engineer Ken Stockbarger wanted a more competitive version of the No. 16 "Shoestring". They wanted a lighter, easier to build and faster airplane, and the SnoShoo was hatched. Ken and Paul welded up a bare fuselage, a set of spars and ribs were made, some other bits and pieces were finished, some plans were drawn, then LIFE interferred and the project went stagnant until 1991 when Al VanMeter and I bought it from Ray. We continued the design work, finished a set of drawings, and completed the proto. The cowl, spinner, turtledeck and canopy surround are all our design and we made molds for these parts. Then LIFE interferred and we didn't get the airplane flown until our pals Jim Debus, Ed Bowes and Steve Mountain worked on the racer to get it through first flight, in 2006. Its empty weight was 555 lbs then.
The wing is a Stockbarger original, and NOT the same as the version he did for a Cassutt replacement wing. We have trimmed some weight off of it, and it will weigh about 130 lbs (ailerons, mass balance, control system and all) AFTER final paint. Ed, Jim, and Steve built a Cassutt called Miss Lynn, and they used our wing design, modified with a cable system for the ailerons, modified rib construction, and used our cowling, canopy, but their own fuselage and tail. Although a bit heavy at over 600 lbs empty, it was the prettiest F-1 airplane I've ever seen! It is being rebuilt and may be at Reno this year, but it will look like a stocker Cassutt.
Shortcomings of the SnoShoo? Well, I've built two Cassutts and about three and a half SnoShoos so I can say that the Cassutt is a simpler airframe to build, all ribs are similar, and the fuselage frame is really easy. The 'Shoo has a prettier tapered wing, but each rib is uniquely built in pairs. Its spars are tapered in width and thickness, and its fuselage is almost identical to the Shoestring lineage with its triangular cross section aft of the cockpit. Good news is that I have a fuselage jig and can supply this item for a builder who needs one. Any other shortcomings mostly constitute a minor detriment for sport use: a locked-straight ahead tailwheel, a lift-off canopy, tight baffling/engine cooling, and the 12" prop extension. These are all being addressed by us.... as Al and I are working on a "Sport SnoShoo" for his personal use.
Lastly, you ask about a new wing; and Al's Sporter will have a super-simple, (Cassutt -like) all-wood wing of 18' span, but still have the minimum allowable F-1 legal 66 sq. ft. of area. I need to get Al out of his hibernation so we can proceed with this! The original SnoShoo will be all painted and shiny by late July, and looking for a race engine!
Some Q & A:
Is the Snoshoo still a competitive design with todays composite planes/wings?
Is the SnooShoo still a competitive design? Absolutely YES! Keep in mind that this airplane was designed to be better than Ray Cote's "Shoestring" and that racer held a qualifying lap record of 254+ mph for many years. It’s a speed that will get you well into the Gold today. When #16 went that fast, it had a wood wing that Stockbarger designed as a replacement to its (Kriemendahl) original, and is virtually identical to SnoShoo's design. I firmly believe that the ingredients for success in the F-1 class are engine, pilot, prop...and in that order! There is no reason that a properly prepared SnoShoo can't compete with the best Gold class racers. Given a great, hard-hitting engine/prop, the man in a SnooShoo has no reason to take a back seat at Reno.
Can the Snoshoo be easily turned into a sport plane? :
Sure, the airplane can be made into a Sporter, and Hep Porter thought we should make it such, as he liked how it flies with a stocker C-85. The mods to turn it from a hard-core racer into a sportflyer are not significant. You will probably like it better than a Cassutt!
What kind of climb rate were you getting with it?:
Climb rate? With the C-85...it wasn't on our agenda during testing.
Can a bigger than listed 6 gallon fuel tank be used for cross country and sport flying? :
We removed a gas tank that I made that held around 18 gallons....and put a 6-gal. tank for racing in it. So 18-20 galllons are no problem!
You will like the SnooShoo, as the two people who have flown it (first flight June '06) are Ed Bowes and Hep Porter...Hep said it was the "funnest, ugliest airplane I've ever flown!" That is a direct quote, as I witnessed the flight, he had a ball, and the airplane was in five shades of gray primer and pretty "un-glossy"! The airplane had a stock C-85 in it and Hep said he got 207 mph with the sport/race prop that was on it. He really liked it. The airplane is now in my paintbooth getting ready to "look pretty". If you'd like to see my work, go to Barnstormers.com and look at Jim Wooden's Pitts Model 12, N144RJ, finished last year at my shop (Ed Bowes flew it to Lincoln) its my first double-cover fabric job.
The history of SnooShoo goes back to 1978 when Ray Cote, his crew chief Paul White, and engineer Ken Stockbarger wanted a more competitive version of the No. 16 "Shoestring". They wanted a lighter, easier to build and faster airplane, and the SnoShoo was hatched. Ken and Paul welded up a bare fuselage, a set of spars and ribs were made, some other bits and pieces were finished, some plans were drawn, then LIFE interferred and the project went stagnant until 1991 when Al VanMeter and I bought it from Ray. We continued the design work, finished a set of drawings, and completed the proto. The cowl, spinner, turtledeck and canopy surround are all our design and we made molds for these parts. Then LIFE interferred and we didn't get the airplane flown until our pals Jim Debus, Ed Bowes and Steve Mountain worked on the racer to get it through first flight, in 2006. Its empty weight was 555 lbs then.
The wing is a Stockbarger original, and NOT the same as the version he did for a Cassutt replacement wing. We have trimmed some weight off of it, and it will weigh about 130 lbs (ailerons, mass balance, control system and all) AFTER final paint. Ed, Jim, and Steve built a Cassutt called Miss Lynn, and they used our wing design, modified with a cable system for the ailerons, modified rib construction, and used our cowling, canopy, but their own fuselage and tail. Although a bit heavy at over 600 lbs empty, it was the prettiest F-1 airplane I've ever seen! It is being rebuilt and may be at Reno this year, but it will look like a stocker Cassutt.
Shortcomings of the SnoShoo? Well, I've built two Cassutts and about three and a half SnoShoos so I can say that the Cassutt is a simpler airframe to build, all ribs are similar, and the fuselage frame is really easy. The 'Shoo has a prettier tapered wing, but each rib is uniquely built in pairs. Its spars are tapered in width and thickness, and its fuselage is almost identical to the Shoestring lineage with its triangular cross section aft of the cockpit. Good news is that I have a fuselage jig and can supply this item for a builder who needs one. Any other shortcomings mostly constitute a minor detriment for sport use: a locked-straight ahead tailwheel, a lift-off canopy, tight baffling/engine cooling, and the 12" prop extension. These are all being addressed by us.... as Al and I are working on a "Sport SnoShoo" for his personal use.
Lastly, you ask about a new wing; and Al's Sporter will have a super-simple, (Cassutt -like) all-wood wing of 18' span, but still have the minimum allowable F-1 legal 66 sq. ft. of area. I need to get Al out of his hibernation so we can proceed with this! The original SnoShoo will be all painted and shiny by late July, and looking for a race engine!
Some Q & A:
Is the Snoshoo still a competitive design with todays composite planes/wings?
Is the SnooShoo still a competitive design? Absolutely YES! Keep in mind that this airplane was designed to be better than Ray Cote's "Shoestring" and that racer held a qualifying lap record of 254+ mph for many years. It’s a speed that will get you well into the Gold today. When #16 went that fast, it had a wood wing that Stockbarger designed as a replacement to its (Kriemendahl) original, and is virtually identical to SnoShoo's design. I firmly believe that the ingredients for success in the F-1 class are engine, pilot, prop...and in that order! There is no reason that a properly prepared SnoShoo can't compete with the best Gold class racers. Given a great, hard-hitting engine/prop, the man in a SnooShoo has no reason to take a back seat at Reno.
Can the Snoshoo be easily turned into a sport plane? :
Sure, the airplane can be made into a Sporter, and Hep Porter thought we should make it such, as he liked how it flies with a stocker C-85. The mods to turn it from a hard-core racer into a sportflyer are not significant. You will probably like it better than a Cassutt!
What kind of climb rate were you getting with it?:
Climb rate? With the C-85...it wasn't on our agenda during testing.
Can a bigger than listed 6 gallon fuel tank be used for cross country and sport flying? :
We removed a gas tank that I made that held around 18 gallons....and put a 6-gal. tank for racing in it. So 18-20 galllons are no problem!
Mon Mar 31, 2008 12:18 am
To anyone with experience, out of the cassutt, snoshoo, owl and shoestring, which is the best platform for modification?