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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:36 am 
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WWII-era bomber donated to Great Park
A planned O.C. museum will honor El Toro's history, designers say. A 1943 Lockheed PV-1 Ventura is the first acquisition.
By Tony Barboza
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

January 31, 2008

In years past, building a central park was about creating an escape from urban life with little nod to what it was replacing.

But the designers of the Orange County Great Park, which is being built on 1,347 acres of the former El Toro Marine Corps base, are taking a new approach, embracing the site's military past rather than bulldozing it.

In one such move, the park's board today plans to accept the donation of a World War II-era patrol plane and bomber as the first artifact for an aviation museum expected to feature dozens of historic aircraft and memorabilia.

Great Park board member Bill Kogerman, a retired Marine colonel who flew fighter jets at the base in the 1960s and '70s, said the 1943 Lockheed PV-1 Ventura was "a fairly old and rare acquisition."

The model was used for night flights during World War II, stopping at El Toro on its way to the fighting in the Pacific. It is unclear if this particular plane landed at El Toro.

It is at an airfield in New Orleans after being so severely damaged by Hurricane Katrina that its owner gave it to an insurance company.

Park officials jumped at the opportunity to get the plane, calling it a modest first step toward the museum. But it also is a sign of an emerging focus of the Great Park project: preserving the base's history while undertaking one of the nation's largest public works projects.

"We want to speak to the fact that the military use of the site was actually what kept it from development and made it available," said Ken Smith, the park's landscape architect. "In the end, the park will be richer because people will see interesting ways of adapting historic structures and reusing them."

Central to the park's design is a 1 3/4 -mile-long historical timeline built atop one of the base's original taxiways. Designers also are storing base memorabilia and colorful squadron murals for use in park buildings and museums.

Hangars are slated for restoration as a visitors center and museum site, and a control tower may be converted into a nature center, Smith said.

Thick slabs of runway concrete, dubbed "El Toro stone" by designers, will become stepping stones on trails. Much of the 600 acres of pavement on the base will be ground up and used for landscaping.

Smith said he also is working to preserve two water towers, which could be used to catch rainwater and irrigate some of the 150 acres of citrus trees planned for the park.

The Great Park also has funded an oral history project in which Cal State Fullerton students have begun creating a repository of interviews with El Toro veterans.

Another early manifestation of that dedication to history has been the park's search for airplanes and helicopters with a connection to the Marine base.

Tom O'Hara, curator of the Flying Leatherneck Aviation Museum at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar in San Diego, was hired as the Great Park's aviation consultant, and now scouts potential acquisitions throughout the country via e-mail and phone.

Early this month, he flew to an airfield outside New Orleans to see the Lockheed PV-1 Ventura. The 65-year-old plane had sustained major hurricane damage. It was missing a door and tires, and it had a hole in one of its wings. But the craft was a find because it is one of only 3,000 made, O'Hara said.

The plane is likely to be the first of many since the park board has set aside $500,000 to start and maintain an aircraft collection. Park designers and architects across the country point to places such as the Great Park as part of a trend to acknowledge the historic background of public places.

Most urban parks in the 19th and early 20th centuries, such as New York's Central Park, aimed to provide escape from overcrowded urban life, at times razing poor neighborhoods and leaving little sign of them. In contrast, contemporary parks have intentionally retained historical elements, reusing them in new and innovative ways.

A runway at Crissy Field, a 100-acre former Army airstrip near the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco that reopened as a park in 2001, is now a popular kite-flying spot. An Army photography lab there has been converted into an educational center.

"The tide has really turned from the idea that a park is a blank piece of paper that you do whatever you want on," said Kristina Hill, director of the landscape architecture program at the University of Virginia. "We've realized that people want a greater connection to the past."

In procuring the Great Park's first airplane, O'Hara, the aviation consultant, spared no attention to detail.

The wings and fuselage will be disassembled and loaded onto two wide-load trucks, then driven to Orange County as early as next month, where the plane will be reassembled and restored at the base at a cost of $70,000.

One key adjustment will be trading its light-blue paint job for olive drab.

"The color scheme in those days was not very exotic," O'Hara said. "We want it to be historically accurate."


Found it here:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... &cset=true


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:14 am 
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This must be one of the aircraft that belonged to the late Patrick Taylor/Taylor Energy. :roll:
Robbie

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:33 am 
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Robbie,
Yes, I think you are correct. I suspect it will be N234P, currently sitting at New Orleans/Lakefront. It is an ex RCAF machine, 2198.
Regards,
Andy Marden

USA Military Out of Service


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:31 am 
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Looks like it was damaged by Katrina (add it to the list) and donated by the Insurance Company.

Quote:
Gift of Rare Vintage Airplane to Launch Great Park Military Museum
IRVINE, Calif., Jan. 31 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Today, the Orange
County Great Park Board Corporation welcomed the gift of a vintage 1943
Lockheed PV-1 Ventura Airplane from The Aviator Underwriters of Dallas,
Texas. The Ventura PV-1 is a rare specially designed night flight spy
plane. Beginning with World War II, this type of plane flew in and out of
El Toro regularly. Both the Marines and Army Air Forces flew the Ventura
PV-1. Only 3,000 Ventura PV-1 planes were sold in the United States and
abroad.

The Ventura PV-1 airplane gifted to the Great Park was damaged by
Hurricane Katrina. It became the property of the Aviator Underwriters of
Dallas, Texas after the claim was paid. The Underwriters, knowing the rare
significance of the plane, decided to donate it to the Great Park, instead
of scrapping it for parts. The plane is currently in New Orleans where it
will be dismantled before being transported to a hanger at the Orange
County Great Park for restoration.
"The Aviator Underwriters of Dallas, Texas are to be commended for
gifting this rare plane for historic preservation to the Great Park," said
Larry Agran, Chair, Orange County Great Park Board Corporation. "The gift of the Ventura PV-1 to the Great Park will mark the beginning of the
military aircraft display for the Great Park. A military airplane display
and military museum are both key elements of the Great Park Master Plan."
The Orange County Great Park, which is almost twice the size of CentralPark, will be a major metropolitan park and the focal point of the
redevelopment of the 4,700-acre former Marine Corps Air Station at El Toro.
The Great Park will include extensive natural areas and open space in
addition to recreational and cultural uses.


Found it here:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stori ... 393&EDATE=


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:04 pm 
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How about a big THANK YOU!! to Aviation Underwriters for having the foresight to NOT have the airframe turned into beer cans? :finga:


I suffer from AIDS...Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:06 pm 
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Sorry, wrong emoticon, thought it was 'thumbs up' not the other.....my bad

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:42 pm 
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No, you did have the right emoticon.... :finga:

Sorry, NOT El Toro. That is gone. The tax grabbers decided that more golf courses and houses would serve Orange County better than a reliever airport.

Imagine that, they turn a viable airport into a "park," then they have the audacity to open an airplane museum.

4700 acres sold to a developer, 1347 acres which will be assigned to public usage (the "great park").

Here's what they really think of MCAS El Toro:

ImageImage

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/ne ... 803998.php

Quote:
In November 2003, the city of Irvine annexed the air station property and was thus able to determine the Great Park's future by zoning.

Following the annexation of the property, the Department of the Navy held an online auction for the El Toro property. Miami- based Lennar Corporation purchased the entire property for $649,500,000 and entered into a development agreement with the City of Irvine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_County_Great_Park



Quote:
June 27, 1993: The federal base closure panel decides to close El Toro by 1999.

July 1993: The Board of Supervisors proposes to oversee El Toro base-closure planning with an advisory council made up of cities and business and community interests. The process is supposed to allow the county to provide a unified front when making its recommendation to the Navy for how the community would like the base developed. Initial reaction is optimistic. It doesn't last as cities and the county argue over the fate of the base.

January 1994: The El Toro Reuse Planning Authority - ETRPA - is formed with participation by the County of Orange, and the cities of Irvine and Lake Forest.

June 1994: Measure A, which would transform El Toro into a commercial airport, qualifies for the ballot.

Nov. 1994: Measure A passes with 51 percent of the vote. Neighborhoods near the base and its flight path vote as much as 90 percent against the measure.

Dec. 1994: Orange County declares bankruptcy. Airport opponents cite it as a reason to take El Toro base reuse planning away from the supervisors.

April 1995: A South County-based citizens group that opposed the Measure A airport initiative says it will begin a petition drive for an initiative to overturn the airport plan.

May 1995: ETRPA expands its membership to include south county cities in an effort to block the proposed commercial airport plan.

November 1995: The new El Toro initiative qualifies for the ballot.

March 1996: Voters reject Measure S, thus upholding Measure A.

August 1996: The county's draft environmental impact report and reuse plan is published. It recommends an airport big enough to accommodate 38 million annual passengers, about four times the annual John Wayne Airport passenger count.

December 1996: County certifies draft environmental impact report.

January 1997: ETRPA files a legal challenge to the Environmental Impact Report

October 1997: Judge Judith McConnell rules in favor of ETRPA and finds that the County of Orange "abused its discretion" by failing to comply with the California Environmental Quality Act when it approved the airport project.

March 1998: South County presents its Millennium Plan for the base, calling for a development including arts and educational institutions, a central park, homes and high-tech businesses.

February 1999: South County cities present what they call the "Safe and Healthy Communities Initiative" designated Measure F. If passed, it would create a requirement for approval by two-thirds of county voters to build or expand an airport, toxic landfill or large jail near homes.

June 1999: County runs a two-day demonstration flying commercial jets in and out of El Toro but the methods and results simply add to the controversy.

• EL TORO CLOSES •


July 2, 1999: El Toro officially closes.

CLICK HERE to see a photo slide show of the base's closure.

August 1999:Measure F supporters set a county record, turning in 192,000 signatures on petitions.

October 1999: Measure F qualifies for March 2000 ballot.

December 1999: County presents an environmental impact report that says a big park at the old base would create more traffic than a commercial airport.

March 7, 2000: County voters vote on Measure F, approving it by a 2-1 margin.

Dec. 1, 2000: Superior Court Judge S. James Otero rules Measure F to be "unconstitutionally vague" and illegal because it usurped the right of the county Board of Supervisors to approve airport projects.

May 2001: The city of Irvine unveils a new citizen-sponsored initiative to overturn 1994's Measure A and replace aviation uses with the Orange County Great Park.

July 18, 2001: Orange County launches a $3 million "Just the Facts" public relations campaign in support of the airport, including public forums, a new Web site and informational mailers to county residents.

November 2001: Measure W is placed on the March ballot.

March 5, 2002: Voters pass Measure W by 58 percent to 42 percent, eliminating the planned airport uses at El Toro.

March 6, 2002: The Department of the Navy announces that, rather than giving the land to the county or a city, it instead will sell the base.

March 18, 2002: El Toro airport advocates file a lawsuit to try to overturn Measure W, saying that state and federal laws give county supervisors the right to decide how to use the base.

April 2002: The City of Irvine meets with the Department of the Navy in Washington, D.C. to discuss the reuse and disposal process for El Toro. The Department of Navy adopts a non-aviation reuse plan for the base.

May 2002: The Department of the Navy, General Services Administration and the City of Irvine announce the Great Park plan and to discuss the Navy's plan to auction the land.

Sept. 18, 2002: Judge Philip H. Hickok upholds Measure W and rules that the people of Orange County, not the Board of Supervisors, have the right to decide how the former air base is developed.

March 2003: The County of Orange and City of Irvine adopt a property tax transfer agreement, necessary for the annexation of the El Toro base.

Nov. 12, 2003: Local Agency Formation Commission votes 5-2 to allow the city of Irvine to annex the 4,700-acre base property, which includes a 1,000-acre parcel that will remain under the jurisdiction of the Federal Aviation Administration.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/ne ... 935258.php


So basically, if you don't want an airport that the public wants, you just keep putting the question to the voters over and over and keep putting in legal challenges until it finally gets overturned.

In case you haven't figured it out, this whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth. I for one will never go there.

Anti-aviation !@#$%^&*!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:03 pm 
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I went around with those people too, a real shame, and for the citizens of OC, continued use of an airport where there is little margin for error.
Of course 650M for the land may seen like a little bit much these days....


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